Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
khaaan
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:12 am

Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby khaaan » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:56 am

It is said that . Also, . Is there any evidence as to which of these two events took place first?

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby Ben » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:36 am

Greetings Khaaan

What sort of evidence are you looking for?
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
khaaan
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:12 am

Re: Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby khaaan » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:47 am

I'd be interested to see any evidence at all, including evidence from the tipitika, the commentaries, and other historical scrolls or writings (Buddhist or not).

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby Ben » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:02 am

Hi Khaaan,
I asked because when I looked at the links you gave to the pages within the Dictionary of Pali Names, it seemed to be extensively referenced.
And the vast majority of the references in the footnotes are to sources within the Tipitaka and Theravadin commentarial literature.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:10 am

Ben, Khaan,

The sutta references may be a little obscure, but by entering "Pabbaja Sutta" into Google I easily found:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

:anjali:
Mike

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 10648
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:13 am

Image




User avatar
khaaan
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:12 am

Re: Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby khaaan » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:02 am

Thanks to everyone who has replied.

Mike, yes, I understand that shortly after his awakening, the Buddha gave the sermon that made King Bimbisāra a sotāpanna. Is that what you are getting at? If so, I'm still not sure how that helps us figure out whether that event took place before or after Bimbisāra's meeting with Ambapālī. During that meeting, by the way, Ambapālī is said to have conceived a son, Vimala-Kondañña, who apparently later became an arahant and persuaded his mother to join the Order.

Ben, if you are suggesting that the information I am looking for is to be found within those the tipitika and commentaries, I wouldn't doubt you, but I've been unable to find it there. Any specific pointers would be greatly appreciated. I haven't even been able to locate an English translation of Theragatha, book 1, #146, which is cited for Bimbisāra and Ambapālī's meeting.

David, do you know of any suttas stating that a king who visits a courtesan is necessarily committing a major sīla violation? If so, I agree that would settle the matter.

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby Ben » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:03 am

Hi Khaaan
The Theragatha and Therigatha have both been on my wish list for a while (PTS).
Howevr, I noticed the other day that, certainly at least, a Thannisaro translation of the Theragatha is online...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/thag/

Here is the Therigatha

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/thig/

I'm not sure how complete they are but I hope they contain the stanzas you're looking for. Keep in mind that the paragraph/verse notation may be different from the translation & edition cited in Dictionary of Pali Names and the more modern translations by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
gavesako
Posts: 1720
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 pm

Re: Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby gavesako » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:30 am

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Bimbisāra and Ambapālī

Postby cooran » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:12 am

Thank you Bhante.

This link may also be of use:
The four levels of transcendent attainment may be described as follows:
1. Sotapanna. This literally means Stream Entry, a metaphorical expression suggesting a stage where one 'enters' into the stream of Nibbana. It is a spiritual sphere beyond the mundane and is therefore not liable to relapse. Once this stage is attained, the noble disciple will be inexorably swept toward the ultimate attainment of Arahantship and nothing can stand in his way. He will not be reborn more than seven times at the most before attaining Arahantship, neither will he ever be born in any woeful states (below that of human).

A Stream-Enterer is incapable of breaking the five precepts because he has permanently eliminated the lowest 'fetters' from his mind. There are ten kinds of defilements called fetters (samyojana) that bind worldlings to Samsara or the cycle of birth and death. Out of these ten,a Stream-Enterer has destroyed the first three, doing away with the false view of individuality (sakkayaditthi), doubt in the Triple Gem, in the doctrine of kamma, and the four Noble Truths (vicikiccha), and blind attachment to rites and rituals (silabbataparamasa). These are three of the five lower fetters that are abandoned on the attainment of Stream-Entry.

There are three classes of Stream-Enterers: those who, if not attaining to Arahantship in this very life, will be born only once before attaining Arahantship; those who will take only two or three births before the final deliverance; and those who will be born seven more times at the most before the ultimate realization of Nibbana. Characteristic of Stream-Enterers is their perfect moral integrity, not given to committing even a relatively insignificant immoral act, even though they may still lead the life of householders. They have complete and unshakable faith in the Triple Gem and would neither denounce nor renounce it at any cost.
http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/getting5.htm

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine

cron