greentara wrote:Kim, Please, you're getting carried away. No one is telling anyone to do nothing. Everyone has to do their bit and more. The argument as I see it is the third world with its massive population hankering to live like the first world....who can blame them? Yet that hankering will bring about the monumental enviromental degradation the scientists see coming.
Sure the 'greens' are brilliant and do very good work but nevertheless the solar rebates have ceased and electricity prices keep going up and up...they're soaring!
Addressing all responses since this one, but starting with this one ...Please, you're getting carried away. No one is telling anyone to do nothing.
Not getting carried away
but sitting here quite calmly. On the other hand, anyone who says "We're doomed anyway" or "it's too hard" or "It's too late" is implicitly telling everyone "It's okay to do nothing" and is therefore part of the problem they (and I) see, not part of the solution.Everyone has to do their bit and more. The argument as I see it is the third world with its massive population hankering to live like the first world....who can blame them? Yet that hankering will bring about the monumental enviromental degradation the scientists see coming.
Two dubious assumption are lurking in there: (1) that there is no benefit to the whole world from the first world reducing its environmental footprint, and (2) that there is a 1:1 correspondence between between industrialisation (and material wealth) and environmental destruction. Each is partly true, sure, but only partly - and every bit of mitigation we can throw at the problem is worthwhile. That, in fact, is another lesson of the wedge theory: there is no single solution but enough partial solutions cobbled together provide a solution ... and if it's too late for a complete solution, it's definitely not too late for a partial solution which will still alleviate a lot of the suffering that would otherwise come our way.Sure the 'greens' are brilliant and do very good work but nevertheless the solar rebates have ceased
In Australia, not all of them. In other countries, who knows? Some countries haven't started down that solar-rebate track and others are still well and truly galloping along it. and electricity prices keep going up and up...they're soaring!
Umm, that's part of the solution, not part of the problem. The closer we come to paying the real cost of our energy, the fairer we are being to people in our future.
More generally, look at this list of denialist memes: http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php?f=taxonomyIt's not happening
is dead amongst all genuine scientists, almost all decision makers (except a few, especially in the US, who are being paid off by fossil fuel interests and a few in the developing world). Many ordinary folk haven't caught on to the fact that the debate is over but they are learning fast.It's not us
is very nearly as dead.It's not bad
is nearly dead too - especially because extreme weather events have ramped up so dramatically in the last year or two.
That only leaves It's too hard
and denialists are exploiting it as hard as they can because it's almost all they have left. But it's not true, for reasons I've already given. If you want more technical detail on mitigation strategies, that page is a good starting point.
C.F. Aked wrote:For evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing.