Attachment to a girl

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Attachment to a girl

Postby Dave The Seeker » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:06 pm

Well as it says in the title, I'm becoming very attached to this great girl I met.
As some of you know I'm an alcoholic in recovery, she is an addict in recovery. I've been told to keep my distance because two people in early recovery will usually mess each other up. I never plan on or want to drink again. I love my life sober way to much to screw it up like I have in the past.
She feels the same as I do, we really like each other a lot.

For the first time in my life, I'm not after the physical part of a relationship.
I'm wanting a healthy and happy relationship with someone who actually cares and just wants to be happy and comfortable as well.

I know attachment isn't a good thing. Any help here would be of great assistance.

Thanks my friends

:namaste:
Everyday problems teach us to have a realistic attitude.
They teach us that life is what life is; flawed.
Yet with tremendous potential for joy and fulfillment.
~Lama Surya Das~

If your path teaches you to act and exert yourself correctly and leads to spiritual realizations such as love, compassion and wisdom then obviously it's worthwhile.
~Lama Thubten Yeshe~

One whose mind is freed does not argue with anyone, he does not dispute with anyone. He makes use of the conventional terms of the world without clinging to them
~The Buddha~
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby greentara » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:54 pm

Dave, Sounds good! "For the first time in my life, I'm not after the physical part of a relationship." To be clear you want a platonic relationship? (I'm guessing you're fairly young)will that honestly satisfy you?
In India I've come across a few relationships between couples where the partner is introduced as 'my spiritual friend'...it seems a time honoured tradition. I wasn't privy to whether it was true or not but they seemed sincere.
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby justsit » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:54 pm

May I ask how long each of you has been sober/clean?

What they say is true, unless you each have a solid base in recovery, at least a year, preferably more, you really are likely to "mess each other up." Without that experience to work from, chances are much higher that your old patterns of working with emotions will sneak back in when you aren't expecting it. All your old "stuff" will get triggered, sooner or later, and you won't have new ways of dealing with it readily available. It is way, way too easy to fool yourself. If your sponsor says back off, back off.

"Falling for" someone is like licking honey from a razor blade. Be very, very careful.
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Dave The Seeker » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:40 pm

greentara, I'm 42 years old. And to be a bit more clear on the relationship, if something happens it happens.
But that's really not the relationship I'm seeking. If I wanted physical relations there's plenty of women in the area that would be willing to be part of that. Sad, but true.

Justsit, I have a bit over a year and she's about 6 months clean.
As I don't have a sponsor, the area where I live is very limited in AA groups and it's all about going to church and the whole 'God thing', I'm just going on what the old guys I talk with regularly are saying to me. I'm sure even if I'm trying my best to pay attention, the old ways could come up and bite my arse.

"Falling for" someone is like licking honey from a razor blade. Be very, very careful.

:rolling: that is so funny, but I trust what you say and know it's true.

I guess I should also add, I've never been in a relationship being sober. I've drank heavy for a good part of my life.
Heck even the 2 times I got married I was drunk as could be, even at the weddings........ :roll:

Thanks so much

:namaste:
Everyday problems teach us to have a realistic attitude.
They teach us that life is what life is; flawed.
Yet with tremendous potential for joy and fulfillment.
~Lama Surya Das~

If your path teaches you to act and exert yourself correctly and leads to spiritual realizations such as love, compassion and wisdom then obviously it's worthwhile.
~Lama Thubten Yeshe~

One whose mind is freed does not argue with anyone, he does not dispute with anyone. He makes use of the conventional terms of the world without clinging to them
~The Buddha~
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby PorkChop » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:47 pm

Hey, congrats on being a year sober Dave!
Think I'd stick with the advice.
You've spent so much time trying to regain control of your life, not sure it'd be worth it to jump into a situation where you'd be handing over control to someone else; especially one who's also on unsure footing.
Of course, in a year from now if you guys are still feeling the same way, maybe give it a try...
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Dave The Seeker » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:15 pm

Thanks PorkChop, yeah I know what I should do...........................

Dang idiot that lives between my ears doesn't agree with advise all the time :shrug:


:namaste:
Everyday problems teach us to have a realistic attitude.
They teach us that life is what life is; flawed.
Yet with tremendous potential for joy and fulfillment.
~Lama Surya Das~

If your path teaches you to act and exert yourself correctly and leads to spiritual realizations such as love, compassion and wisdom then obviously it's worthwhile.
~Lama Thubten Yeshe~

One whose mind is freed does not argue with anyone, he does not dispute with anyone. He makes use of the conventional terms of the world without clinging to them
~The Buddha~
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby floating_abu » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:52 pm

Best wishes with whatever course you take, Dave.

:namaste:
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby duckfiasco » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:09 pm

How wonderful to see you step out of a great cause of suffering, Dave. I'm so happy for you :twothumbsup:

My advice with any kind of relationship is just to keep things simple, but be aware. I think both ingredients are important. I've seen myself screw up by either keeping things simple but then being unaware of little obsessive thoughts that grew over time, or being aware but accidentally turning that awareness into participation and growth of those same thoughts :techproblem: "... is so wonderful! ... is so terrible!" Give me a flippin' break :zzz: Whenever I notice I'm telling myself things about other people, it's a big red flag that mindfulness has slipped away at some point! Seems like this could be especially important when feeling out a new friendship in a delicate situation, as two people in recovery.

A local Zen teacher also told me to meet everyone as if for the first time. With bodhicitta in your heart and no hangups (difficult!), it can be a wonderful practice :)
Please take the above post with a grain of salt.
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Konchog1 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:38 pm

"Enjoyment isn't the problem, craving is the problem."

-Lord Tilopa


Go for it.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Ayu » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:34 pm

Hello dave,

I see two possible results of what ever you choose - it can become good or bad. :shrug:
It depends on many factors.
In my opinion, the intellect is not able to solve this propperly by reasoning.

Is it possible for you to get into contact with your inner guru? This realm can be found in deep relaxed meditation. When everything is quiet inside one can ask and an answer may arise spontaneously with a very quiet voice.

Sorry, my English is too bad for this.

May you be happy and always see the Dharma. :smile:
Best wishes,
Ayu
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby greentara » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:48 pm

Dave, I thought you were younger because you said 'girl' actually you are a mature man and she's a woman. Whatever happens, you, like all of us, deep down are just seeking happiness.
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Dave The Seeker » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:26 am

Thank you all for the advise and input. :bow: It seems that I will just take my time and see what progresses.
It's odd there was really no attraction until we really started just talking here and there. Then it seems we both realized that there is 'something' there.

Ayu, thank you very much, I have sat in meditation and sought an answer from my 'inner guru'. I have a bit of quiet time as I live and work alone. The answer that has arisen is happiness. That's really all I can say.

greentara, sorry for the misguided wording.
Everyday problems teach us to have a realistic attitude.
They teach us that life is what life is; flawed.
Yet with tremendous potential for joy and fulfillment.
~Lama Surya Das~

If your path teaches you to act and exert yourself correctly and leads to spiritual realizations such as love, compassion and wisdom then obviously it's worthwhile.
~Lama Thubten Yeshe~

One whose mind is freed does not argue with anyone, he does not dispute with anyone. He makes use of the conventional terms of the world without clinging to them
~The Buddha~
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Red Faced Buddha » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:33 am

Hope things work out well for you two.I'm not going to give advice,because I'm hardly qualified in the matter,but you have my best wishes.
A person once asked me why I would want to stop rebirth. "It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want to be reborn."
I replied. "Wanting to be reborn is like wanting to stay in a jail cell, when you have the chance to go free and experience the whole wide world. Does a convict, on being freed from his shabby, constricting, little cell, suddenly say "I really want to go back to jail and be put in a cell. It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want that?"
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Huifeng » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:17 am

All the best, however it goes, Dave. :namaste:

~~ Huifeng
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby greentara » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:54 am

Dave, Just adding a bit of whimsy. You can fall in love with a woman and you can fall in love with a boat.
Frank Mulville, a single handed sailor, he got blissed out and wrote "He was sailing in the Caribbean, in love with his ship and the long silences. He wanted to see her and himself from the outside , so one calm day, although the boat was under sail, he attached himself to a long rope, let himself down into the water and floated away.
It made me feel quite dizzy just to look at her. She seemed the most lovely thing dipping in and out of sight as she mounted the long Atlantic swell and then slipped into the hollows. This, it struck me was the supreme moment of my life. I had never achieved anything to equal it and I was never likely to again. This was the ultimate experience ....it was my dream and I had it"
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby futerko » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:04 am

greentara wrote:Dave, Just adding a bit of whimsy. You can fall in love with a woman and you can fall in love with a boat.

...and they're so much easier to buy presents for. :tongue:

good luck Dave.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Ayu » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:05 am

Dear Dave,
Maybe i'll write some of my personel impressions about this topic.

I've been told to keep my distance because two people in early recovery will usually mess each other up.

This can be but must not.
But in my experience good friends have been better judges than i could be, when i fell in love. In Germany we say : "Love makes blind."

In my story it was the oposite: two adicted people helped each other out. My man was drinking, when i first met him. I had recovered from drugs for some years that time when we first met. But for my conciousness secretly i was on my way to alcoholism in a sneaky way that time. With a glass of wine in my hand i told to my friends: "I should be aware of the bad sides of drinking. Alcohol is not for me. (And this is just one glass of wine - or maybe two... But actually three or four...)"
So in this time we met.
He was the first person i met after ten years whom i could just laugh with. At the first sight, the first cup of coffee, there was a bond of understanding between us.
Then after some weeks he told me: "Hello, my name is <<...>> and I have some problems with alcohol." He wanted to stop drinking, he said. "But actually I have no problem with alcohol - but without!", he added.
In addition he was 8 years younger than i (25 that time) and he lived still in the house of his crazy mother, who treated him like a little child. He was not allowed to have his own money.
I was a grown-up woman of 33 years and had a 9-year old child an some broken relationships in my past...

So i had very, very big doubts to accept him as my companion. I saw endless coming problems ... But all my different friends said: "Be happy! It's your chance! He's a young and funny person and you deserve to have a good time after all now."
They could see from outside, that it was good.
A female friend said the best fitting sentence: "Here you can see all the problems openly: his mother, his addiction. That's much better than finding a person who seems to be perfect: there will be hidden problems! Because some problem or sticking point will always be there in every person. So better you see it clearly now than to find it out in some years."
She was right!
The good point was: he was and he is still a very kind person and he really wanted to to get out of his addiction to alcohol. He himself wanted to stopp drinking. This was very important. So i assisted him in this ambition, but i told him: "YOU have to do this fight. I can't do it for you. I just can help and be there." So he was determined. And i had a good reason to stopp drinking my small glasses of wine immediatly.
Without eachother , maybe we wouldn't be as healthy as we are now. We helped eachother out.

Maybe good friends can see this more clearly from outside what kind of quality this relation can have.


And in the issue of asking the inner guru: If the answer was "Just Happyness'" , then maybe the question was worded too generally? Like a simple "What do I want?" ??
If you want to know it more explicit, the question has to be more direct, more detailed. Like: "Will this love help in my recovery?" Or something like this. The inner guru is sparing of words. But to get a real good answer one has to be honest and calm and quiet. Buddha-like. If one grasps for an answer it may come out wrong.

Good Success ! :smile:

Ayu
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby ground » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:16 am

Attachment to alcohol, recovery from that, attachment to a girl ... human dilemma :sage:

"The eye is burning, forms are burning, eye-consciousness is burning, eye-contact is burning, also whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant that arises with eye-contact for its indispensable condition, that too is burning. Burning with what? Burning with the fire of lust, with the fire of hate, with the fire of delusion. I say it is burning with birth, aging and death, with sorrows, with lamentations, with pains, with griefs, with despairs.

"The ear is burning, sounds are burning...

"The nose is burning, odors are burning...

"The tongue is burning, flavors are burning...

"The body is burning, tangibles are burning...

"The mind is burning, ideas are burning, mind-consciousness is burning, mind-contact is burning, also whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant that arises with mind-contact for its indispensable condition, that too is burning. Burning with what? Burning with the fire of lust, with the fire of hate, with the fire of delusion. I say it is burning with birth, aging and death, with sorrows, with lamentations, with pains, with griefs, with despairs.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Dave The Seeker » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:50 pm

I truly can not say thank you enough to all of you who've responded.

The responses have really helped me a lot.
After 25+ years of heavy drinking, I'm beginning to realize how bright and wonderful the world and the people in it are!

Haha boats........lived on one for a while, sure did love it. And at times I think a girl would cost me less financially and in terms of stress :rolling:

Ayu, thanks so much for adding your experience to this. I think it can be of help in a big way to me.
It's funny in a way that I'm the alcoholic and she's an addict, same as your situation, but we're both sober now.
Today I will have the chance to sit for a good amount of time and will ask a more direct question, and hope for an answer.
I've talked with a very good friend of mine, 20 years sober and he saw the one time he was sure I'd pick up again.
I had to pay a bill from my divorce, which was final 2 years ago, and the ex-wife was really getting to me.
As he said she knows the old you, not the sober you. Don't let her bring out the old one again. She didn't!
I also had a friend, that was a girl, who knew the old drunk me, all she wanted was her old friend back, to drink and party with.
I saw she was attempting to sabatoge my sobriety. So I'm hoping through these past experiences I'll be able to see if there's an issue arising before things get out of control.

To me this is a chance to have a relationship with someone who never knew the old drunk me. And I have no idea of her past, other than what we've shared in meetings. So to me this is really a fresh start, something I've never had other than getting sober. Which to me was the greatest fresh start ever!

Once again thank you so so much my friends!

:namaste:
Everyday problems teach us to have a realistic attitude.
They teach us that life is what life is; flawed.
Yet with tremendous potential for joy and fulfillment.
~Lama Surya Das~

If your path teaches you to act and exert yourself correctly and leads to spiritual realizations such as love, compassion and wisdom then obviously it's worthwhile.
~Lama Thubten Yeshe~

One whose mind is freed does not argue with anyone, he does not dispute with anyone. He makes use of the conventional terms of the world without clinging to them
~The Buddha~
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Re: Attachment to a girl

Postby Ayu » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:37 am

Most important for newbies in becoming sober is good help:
intelligent therapists or even better a group of people, with the same expierience (self-help group).
We went to such a group and it was extremly precious to meet people who were sober since 7 years, 10 years, 14 years... The input in our mind was: it is possible to stay sober!
These people know exactly how the monster works, how it suggests that i am weak, that i just need a very small quantity of the drug or the alcohol to feel better... These times of instability come in a very subtle way and good friends are needed.
In my opinion.
Don't stay alone, you two.
But buddhist practice will be a great help for you. So later you will be a big help for other needy people. :smile:
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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