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Rules or terrible injustice? - Dhamma Wheel

Rules or terrible injustice?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Dhammabodhi
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Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby Dhammabodhi » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:09 am

"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka

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pilgrim
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby pilgrim » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:49 am

I don't agree with their interpretation of the rules. A parajika offence, like other offences, must be intentional.

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cooran
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby cooran » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:08 am

Hello Dhammabodhi, pilgrim,

Which tradition does the nun belong to?

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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gavesako
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby gavesako » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:50 am

A number of bhikkhunis were raped at the time of the Buddha, including Uppalavanna who became an arahant, and they remained "ordained" of course:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/What+is+a ... 0158093981

Alse see her verses:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

This report from Nepal merely reflects the traditional Hindu attitudes which get mixed up with Buddhism there.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
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plwk
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby plwk » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:00 am


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Lazy_eye
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby Lazy_eye » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:22 am

Hi Plwk,

How would monastics in your tradition approach this kind of situation? Do you happen to know?

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Ytrog
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby Ytrog » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:31 am

Thanks Ven. Gavesako, that clarifies it :)

The thing she would especially need right now is support from the Sangha she grew up with, not to be scorned by it. :console:

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pilgrim
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby pilgrim » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:15 pm

The incident

The nun was returning home with Rs 130,000 from Kakarbhitta. She boarded a bus in Dharan at around 10 a.m. for Sabha Khola. She would have to cross the river by boat because of the monsoon spate, and take another vehicle to reach Khandbari by evening.

“Throughout the journey she was in constant touch with her aunt in Kakarbhitta and had said in her last communication around 6 p.m. that she may be late reaching Khandbari as the road was blocked by a broken-down tractor,” Tara Tamang, the victim´s cousin, disclosed.

The bus reached Sabha Khola late and a boat was not available for the night. “Local hotels told us that she had asked for a room for the night but all rooms were already taken,” Inspector Thapa said.

She then had supper with the bus crew at one of the hotels and apparently agreed to stay in the bus for the night as she was a nun and also because an elderly woman was also staying in the same bus, the inspector added. The bus crew apparently drugged her at the hotel before raping her in the bus. “She said they had offered her a beer which she refused and she only remembers taking a Frooty at the hotel. The Frooty must have been drugged,” her father said.

Family misfortune

The victim was the eldest of Krishna Bahadur´s four daughters. His wife is chronically ill and can´t help him much with his farming.

The nun had tried to get enrolled in Dharamshala, India last year and borrowed Rs 20,000 from her uncle and aunts for the purpose but she couldn´t get admitted as she missed the deadline by a few days. She had then returned to Nepal and was staying in Pokhara.

Krishna Bahadur had planned to build the new house after selling one of his two buffalos but both were found dead in the morning just five days before the rape incident. She was bringing the borrowed money from her aunt for the house construction. “The death of the buffaloes was a bad omen and then this happened to my daughter just days later,” Krishna Bahadur lamented.

Exceprt from: http://www.myrepublica.com/portal/index ... s_id=33156

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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby Dhammabodhi » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:36 pm

Thank you Bhante, your references make it clear that the rules are unambiguous in this regard. This type of ignorance is prevalent in much of South Asia, be it Hindu, Islamic, or otherwise. I know for a fact, however, that rape law has been reformed in India, although a lot remains to be done when it comes to the mentality of communities in rural parts.

Cooran: I don't know the tradition which she was ordained in. As others have said, however, it is highly likely that she is/was from the Vajrayana tradition.

I completely agree with pilgrim and Ytrog's comments.

:anjali:

Dhammabodhi
"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka

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pilgrim
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby pilgrim » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:32 pm

If anyone feels compelled to contact the Nepal Buddhist Federation, you can do so here
http://www.nbf.org.np/contact.php
email: [email protected]
I have communicated ny views to them

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Ytrog
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby Ytrog » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:21 pm


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Andrea
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby Andrea » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:51 pm

Alliance for Bhikkunis - http://www.bhikkhuni.net/

Dhammadharini - https://sites.google.com/site/dhammadharini/

Songdhammakalayani Bhikkhuni Arama - http://www.thaibhikkhunis.org/eng/

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octathlon
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby octathlon » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:42 pm

Equating being raped with "marriage", "a physical relationship", and "a damaged vessel that can no longer be used to keep water" is the absolute worst kind of ignorance, that has gone on for so long in human history it seems hopeless that women will ever be respected as human beings by men. Animals get more respect. As a woman, I have nothing to do with any religious institutions of any kind. There is not a one that respects women as fully human beings. Even in so-called "enlightened" societies, just look to the local religion to find the same old attitudes, at most only sparsely covered by a thin veneer of platitudes to maintain social acceptability.

Anyway, if anyone gets further information regarding a petition we can sign, or where we can send donations to her and her family for hospital bills and other needs, please post it here.

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pilgrim
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby pilgrim » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:04 am

I don't think a petition would be useful. If they truly believe they are acting in accordance with the Vinaya, a petition would be dismissed as outside or ignorant interference. (Edit: the authorities seem sympathetic but seem to believe the are bound by the rules). I understand the Alliance for Bhikkhunis have contacted some people who may know more about the matter or have some influence. As it is, we can't even be certain if the person interviewed truly represents the Nepal Buddhist Federation.

I think the suggestion for donations is good as the family seems poor. But I am unaware of any organised assistance .

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:07 am

My first instinct is that these guys should be disrobed and whipped through the streets naked as an object lesson to their peers.
My second instinct is more compassionate, give them sundresses so not so much blood is drawn.

These guys need to be OUT!
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Lazy_eye
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby Lazy_eye » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:42 pm

Perhaps a qualified person (a monastic, or very experienced practitioner with a good knowledge of the vinaya) could write an op-ed for the English-language press in Nepal? It seems crucial to combat the ignorance on display here -- not only for the sake of the victim, but also for the sake of the dhamma which should not be misrepresented in this way.

If there are authority figures within the relevant vajrayana school/tradition who could be persuaded to weigh in, that might help too...

Perhaps, also, a nunnery elsewhere would be willing to take her in and support her continuing practice?

What a horrible story.

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:31 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Ytrog
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby Ytrog » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:30 pm


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octathlon
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby octathlon » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:14 pm


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Dan74
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Re: Rules or terrible injustice?

Postby Dan74 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:58 am

What a tragic story...

Like Ven Gavesako, I think these are local prejudices rather than Dhamma/Dharma.

In fact one of the holiest of the Tibetan (Vajrayana's) own masters, Yeshe Tsogel, consort of Padmasabhava, was gang-raped and turned her attackers towards the Dharma.

So in Tibetan Buddhist tradition there is no such notion as the "broken vessel" that this monk spoke of. If anyone knows someone who has an ear of senior lamas to alert them to this case, something could be done.

I hope so.
_/|\_


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