Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

DGA
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby DGA » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:01 pm


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SonofRage
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby SonofRage » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:07 pm

Looks like a lot of the same information. Even getting through the poor English, the arguments presented aren't the most coherent in the world.

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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Yudron » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:14 pm

I think Americans who are not Buddhist coming in to Buddhism expect things to run as they do in the dominant Christian community. Basically, anyone can start a new church, and it succeeds or fails based on whether folks enjoy going there or not. There would naturally be assumptions that there are programs that lead to being able to officially help people in their practice, such as a pastor in a protestant church, and longer training programs that lead to being a minister--a profession. People can understand such programs based on coursework.

Ambitious people would naturally want to start to "ascend" in whatever system towards professionalism. The idea of making money while not having to work a regular job is appealing, but there are all kinds of other motivations at work, too--positive and negative.

These ideas are not congruent with my Asian teachers ideas about how things should work in a Buddhist system. In our system, all-be-it Tibetan, one would really need to both have realization (and concomitant compassion), knowledge, a teacher's personality, but also utter faith and devotion to one's teacher and lineage. None of this can be guaranteed will happen in an entire lifetime of study and practice!

So, there is a disconnect there that comes up continually in a lot of Buddhist organizations, where American students feel they are owed a teaching credential after a certain number of years. Again and again they create their own centers, appoint themselves as teachers, and create organizations that are closer to a protestant Christian model in this way.
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Astus » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:59 pm

Yudron,

In Buddhism, generally speaking, there are no special rules for establishing yourself as a teacher. Technically, a small group of monks can establish a separate community without problem. In fact, even a single influential monk or nun with substantial followers can start a new monastery or even a new tradition. Lay people are free to do as they want. Nobody owns the Dharma and nobody rules the Sangha. What really matters in the end is whether one can get the necessary support, either from the general laity or from political power, that will provide the material basis of Dharma centres, monasteries, publishing, etc.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Yudron » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:10 am

I guess you could call it ownership, but I think of it as quality assurance.
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:47 am

It is true that "religion for a living" can be appealing. If you know how to play it (think televangelist), but it many ways it can be a very difficult and demanding vocation.

But at the same time demands on clergy are extremely high. A newspaper in Canada did a survey of work hours per week in different professions and right near the top was "minister". If it is a large congregation one is expected to be available to the families of the church to provide counselling in times of death and crisis, advice during times of spiritual doubt etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if the same holds true for many ordained sangha in Buddhist centres. Certainly the Viet Namese monks and nuns I know seem to work non-stop, attending daily services as well as non-stop cooking, cleaning, counselling and event organizing.

In Western Tibetan Buddhist centres for monks and nuns often the only official roles available for those who are not senior or enough or qualified to act as teachers is Centre Director or Program Co-ordinator. In centres of a decent size these are both extremely demanding jobs that demand many hours of work and also lots of patience in terms of dealing with people.

In Buddhist centres in the West for the most part if you live and eat at a centre you will have to "earn your keep". It is not like in Asia where the society accepts to support a few full time practitioners due to culture.

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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:46 pm

If you can not read, then try this post its a lot clearer for you....http://shobogenzozencenter.wordpress.co ... ybe/....... today's post and as I said I hope the last. I`m tired of them all, their like nat`s that you can`t get rid of.
Last edited by Mujinkaruna on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:47 pm

Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
[/i]

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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Yudron » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:04 pm

If you are going trying to persuade people like me--who don't know the situation first hand--of your point of view, these kind of blog posts are not going to do that. They make the writer look angry and vindictive... not appealing qualities in the world of Buddhism.

My suggestion is to have a friend for whom English is a first language help you write a straight forward account of why you left this teacher and center -- just the facts, not laced with anger. You can put in how it affected you personally at the end.. what the effect was on you emotionally, physically, economically, and so on. If you are trying to prevent people from becoming his student, that will have more of the effect you want.
Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:21 pm

Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
[/i]

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Seishin
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Seishin » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:38 pm

Hi Mujinkaruna, welcome to the forum. :smile:

I think it's obvious you have been hurt by FMZO and it shows in your posts. And it's nothing personal, but your posts have some grammar and spelling errors which make them difficult to follow sometimes. I'm dislexic myself and take a long time to post a comment so I can go over everything, correct spelling mistakes etc (google chrome is best for this)

It's great what you're doing for the Filipinos in Manila "Kabayan!" :twothumbsup:

Gassho,
Seishin.

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Mujinkaruna
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:07 pm

Thanks Its this PC and the writing at night by the light of the screen a lot I have to bend it down to see the key board and up to read it where I`m at. Sometimes i`m using a USB smart Bro wifi on the back of a bus too, that doesn`t help. i put this windows 8 in my Acer s 3 and it just jumps around on me and to be honest, i`m jumping from bus to jeepney and everything doing this crap. So I am sorry for the typo`s. Plus FMZO had control of my web site and blogs, so there was a lot of transitioning for me to do as well. I had to write the web site people to get mu site traffic back and my PayPal really gave me crap over Paul. The quote from the Ven. karuna posted here is what through me really. he left the Order along time ago do to the Vinaya rules they go by, he wanted to marry as most of them, so there was only a few monks left. i talked to him, and i can not see him saying that after the talk i had with the Ven. karuna Dharma, and her not knowing Paul using her name and Dharma seal stamp on ordination papers. I had to show her for her to understand, she gone on a 3 year retreat, knows nothing of any of this with him. For me, that is the main issues, among all the threats to not just me but others by so called monks. i told them i was done, every morning i wake up to their crap. So yeah i do get pissed. they almost cost me in about 4000,000 PhP in a rice project i have do to their IRS nonprofit crap I knew nothing about until it was showed to me and not by them. They brought a lot of harm to a lot of Filipino`s and my students, almost killed everything i had in place for them. I have all my money out in a new zen center for them and plane tickets for a retreat. I just had to pay out a few grand USD for the needs to plant in the rice fields for jobs do to the big scandal that went down over here and everyone losing their investments in oil to the Muslims in Mindanao.You know Pauls say to all that, frak them!! Nice Zen master man. That all i have to say, you can take my robe and my labels and stick them all, that diesn`t make you the person you are.
Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
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Mujinkaruna
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:27 pm

Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:00 am

I have out of respect for Sweeping Zen removed that post so the link is not going to work or it be found on my sites. Seems the heat was put on him over it.
Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
[/i]

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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:36 am

Hey, can you guys take down the Sweeping Zen Interview post I put up, it seems to have him in some very hot water and we talked this morning i should of thought of his safety. I woke up this morning with him ( Adam Tebbe ) from Sweeping Zen freaking out about the heat he is in now. I wouldn`t want something to happen to him so can you please for safety reasons remove it and this post. Thank you.
Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
[/i]

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Indrajala
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Indrajala » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:23 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby DGA » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:19 pm


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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:07 am

I was sent an email by the head monk in charge of the IBMC as the Ven. Karuna Dharma is in Sacramento this week. this is what was told to me just this morning.

" I've seen Chitta's photo on the Facebook Founders Page of IBMC... (which has nothing to do with the IBMC Facebook page)... Karuna is in the first stages of Alzheimers not sure how much advice she is able to give... The college of Buddhist Studies seems to have been taken over by a new person... Not sure why or how... But maybe you can find a link online."

So with this being said i am asking for anyone's help in finding out how Paul lynch took over the school of IBMC, the founder and owner being the Ven. Karuna herself. For-which seems to know nothing of this after reading this email. I have been given a task by the head monk to find out how this came about to be, no one at IBMC even knows, not even the owner and founder of the school now for 42 years. All her work has been some how stolen. being an IT Tech I looked at the page coding and the metta verification code is beforethought of Paul Lynch. All I ask for was the Ven. karunas where about`s for real and a contact #.
Now I know the Global adm doesn`t want to disclose this on your site, but i am asking, as I have been tasked by the head monk for any help in finding out how this take over happen. Maybe he just stole the site info. and made a new site which would of cost a lot of money that he doesn`t have so he says, who is backing this? This should put some light on if the post posted by Ven. karuna prior was legit or not. If he is a dharma teacher of IBMC and the IBMC doesn`t even know about the details, then how could he? Why hasn`t Paul come forward with some details and prove of true ownership and rights? Instead being looked at by the IRS and shut down by PayPal for nonprofit fraud. In being given this task I did find this link that leads us down another road in a way of some insight..
[url]
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id ... _pymk_name[/url]
Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
[/i]

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Mujinkaruna
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:57 am

Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
[/i]

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Mujinkaruna
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Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch

Postby Mujinkaruna » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:22 pm

Just amazing!!
Ven Mujin karuna 法师无尽卡鲁纳
Abbot: [url]shobogenzozencenter.org[/url]
Cell: +63 09071845304
[/i]


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