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the great vegetarian debate - Page 68 - Dhamma Wheel

the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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octathlon
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Re: High carbohydrate diet tied to cancer

Postby octathlon » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:28 pm

Alan,
What is your pronouncement on pasta?

alan
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Re: High carbohydrate diet tied to cancer

Postby alan » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:51 am

I've eliminated all starchy carbs, and just consider pasta to be white bread in a different shape.

Ay first I thought it was odd to have a red sauce without pasta, but now I'm used to it and it eat it all the time. Get one with lots of olive oil and no sugar or hfcs. (My favorite:).
I add lots of steamed broccoli and some grilled chicken, maybe a topping of parmesan--oh, yum. Lots of the good with none of the bad.

alan
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Re: High carbohydrate diet tied to cancer

Postby alan » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:56 am

thereductor,
2 or 3 times a week is much better than average.
I weaned myself off soft drinks by getting bottles of sparkling water and mixing in a little grapefruit juice. Something about the sweet and tang was satisfying.

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Re: High carbohydrate diet tied to cancer

Postby alan » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:18 am

It's easier to understand food choices if you have an understanding of the 3 main components--protein, fat, and carbs. These are the macronutrients. (There are also micronutrients, and the are very important too--but that is a subject for another time). When looking at food, it is useful to break it down into these parts, determine the ratio you need, and figure out how to get each from the best possible source.
Protein is necessary. You can't live without it. Your level of activity will determine how much you need, but you need it. Best source is whey. Worse is probably lunch meats.
Fat is also necessary, which some may be surprised to hear. Good fats include nuts and dairy. Bad fats are really, really bad, and unfortunately present in most convenience foods. The worst offender is transformed fats. Transforming liquid soybean oil into margarine, for example, requires the industrial process known as "partially hydrogenated". Anytime you see a variance of this word on the package, throw it away. This stuff will kill you.
Ok, that leave carbs. What are they? Basically, if it is composed of carbon and water, it is a carbohydrate.
Not all carbs are bad for you--it's just that overindulgence in the very simple ones creates serious problems. Beans, cauliflower, broccoli? great. Zucchini, eggplant? wonderful. You get where I'm going here. The more complex the structure of the sugars*, the better. Simple sugars are usually white. Complex carbs are usually colorful. Simple sugars are usually soft and sweet and easy to like. Complex carbs may take a bit of preparation to enjoy.

So there is your primer. You want to get high quality protein, good fats, and limit your intake of simple carbs.
Helpful?
If so, I could go into some detail on another thread.

*Actually, the proper word here is saccharide. But for our purposes it doesn't really matter.

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octathlon
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Re: High carbohydrate diet tied to cancer

Postby octathlon » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:51 am

You didn't mention why the more complex carbohydrates are better than the simple ones. It's generally because simple ones (high Glycemic Index) are absorbed very quickly, causing a spike in blood sugar, and the body responds with more insulin. Diets with lots of high-GI foods are linked to increased risk of diabetes and heart disease. Low GI foods help control type 2 diabetes (I'm too lazy to google for links at the moment).

I mentioned pasta because it actually has a much lower GI than other simple carbohydrates because of its physical structure, which slows down the body's ability to process it, and it doesn't cause those spikes in blood sugar. It's still carbs, though, and you have to watch how much you eat, but it doesn't have some of the bad effects of other forms of grains that cause them to be vilified.

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Re: High carbohydrate diet tied to cancer

Postby alan » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:15 am

Durum semolina is the basis of pasta, and it is in fact a "better" than white bread. But most people are in the habit of consuming a big bowl of pasta with just a bit of sauce, which I don't recommend.
I'm assuming by "physical structure" you are referring to gluten. That's what hold those noodles together, why we can make them into any shape we want.
Gluten is often found in many junky, plastic--packaged "foods". It is not healthful.

Thought I had made it clear why complex carbs are better than simple ones.
Last edited by alan on Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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octathlon
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Re: High carbohydrate diet tied to cancer

Postby octathlon » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:36 am


anton
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby anton » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:56 am

the first precept in buddhism is to undertake the training rule
to abstain from taking life
…practicing non-extremism is consistent with the teachings of the middle way
so rather than abstaining from meat altogether
i will undertake the training to be a vegetarian


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the great vegetarian debate

Postby anton » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:05 am

it is difficult to extinguish
the seed of great hypocracy
when being both a buddhist and an eater of meat

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cooran
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby cooran » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:23 am

Hello anton,

You may be interested in reading the Theravada point of view on Vegetarianism, as taught by the Buddha, in these articles:

On Vegetarianism
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha022.htm

What the Buddha said about eating meat - Ajahn Brahmavamso
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebsut034.htm

Buddhism and Vegetarianism Ajahn Jagaro
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha151.htm

Buddhism and Vegetarianism: The Rationale for the Buddha's Views on the Consumption of Meat. V. A. Gunasekara
http://www.viet.net/anson/ebud/ebdha069.htm

Are You Herbivore or Carnivore? - A Critical Analysis on Issues of Vegetarianism Breaking Out Among the Buddhists for Centuries
by Jan Sanjivaputta
http://www.viet.net/anson/ebud/ebdha156.htm

Vegetarianism
Venerable K. Sri Dhammananda Maha Thera
http://www.viet.net/anson/ebud/ebdha189.htm

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am

The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Ben
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:44 am

Greetings Chris and Valerie
I think we are getting spammed with bad poetry.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Sanghamitta
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:26 am

I think you are right Ben having just clicked on the link... :roll:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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pilgrim
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby pilgrim » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:19 pm

Nothing is permanent
Except this topic.

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David N. Snyder
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Image




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gavesako
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby gavesako » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Ajahn Sudhiro - Buddhist monks and vegetarianism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTZFRy3IW98

Buddhist monks are alms mendicants who depend on the food offerings (pindapata) that lay people make out of kindness. Therefore they cannot be choosy about what they are going to receive, they should not reject food offerings. However, they can choose to eat vegetarian food for health reasons, etc. One should be easy to support and not make a lot of fuss about what one will eat or not. (Jivaka Sutta -- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html)

:popcorn:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
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octathlon
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby octathlon » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:34 am

It's a topic that tends to give rise to either pride or defensiveness, depending on one's views.

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retrofuturist
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:49 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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ground
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby ground » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:21 am


Sanghamitta
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby Sanghamitta » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:22 am

But that often seems to be not the case on Buddhist forums. Obviously there is no way to ascertain the numbers of people who quietly reassess their own ethical position re meat eating as a result of debate. But what is clear is that a number of Buddhist converts go much further than that and feel that they have the right to judge other peoples ethical position on the subject.
And I write as someone who has been a vegetarian for 25 years.
But what others choose for lunch after consideration of all the issues is not my business.
My business is what I do.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.


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