Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

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coldwater
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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby coldwater » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:59 pm

Hi Abu,

Thanks Abu, I do try to find a clear place in my heart for each person's practice and approach. Since some of these people live in my Chinese medicine practitioner's community and I work with them...to foster anything but would only bring me inner grief and conflict.

Your opinions are interesting and I agree with you on your ideas of marketing the dharma. A whole 'nother thread could come out of the various 'styles' and marketing schemes, 'center' model, membership levels and perks and so forth that exist in the world of Buddhist religionists.

Though the mystery remains- what has your experience and practice with Mondo/Mondo practitioners been like? How deep does your study and practice with them go? What is the foundation of your opinion of it/them besides what you saw on the internet or heard? Do you have more than that to be making sweeping claims of their realizations, authenticity and practice?

Also can you share the link where you draw your quote? I'd like to follow up with the one priest I know about it since her dharma talk was not in line with that at all. As a different picture was drawn at the one-day sit and explanation of Mondo that I heard. I'd be happy to share her response to it if you are interested.


-lance

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Anders
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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby Anders » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:04 pm

"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby floating_abu » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:31 pm


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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby floating_abu » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:40 pm


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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby floating_abu » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:50 pm


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coldwater
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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby coldwater » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:24 pm

Hello Abu,

Reading is not tasting and without tasting you cannot know the flavor. Reading blogs and forums can be interpreted infinite ways and without practice in something you cannot truly know it for what it is.

I encouraged you to share you own experiences and insights as it would be more useful in explaining what Mondo Zen is/is not rather than only your opinion of the Buddhist world in general. Publicly discussing and criticizing another's practice or method without experience in it is not very fruitful.

If internet sources of people you just randomly found are now valid sources, feel free to provide the links so others can make their own assessments as well. Sharing their experiences does not constitute sharing your own.

You discredit me based on being an internet source and opinion but use the sources and opinions of others who are equally knowable to validate your own views. I kindly ask that if you have time to read other's blogs about their practice, then discuss their flaws and make judgements to discredit another abstract identity on the internet...go practice with those misguided people instead and talk with them in person or by email. If you find they are seriously misled become better friends with them so you can help them not be deceived. If I am invalid and they are invalid on the same principles then a invalid conversation has been happening....why for?

So without you providing any of your own personal experience with Mondo and ignoring the request...I feel like I should discontinue this conversation publicly from my side as it has seems to go beyond the intent of the thread.
-lance

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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby floating_abu » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:12 pm


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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby floating_abu » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:22 pm


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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby DGA » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:03 pm


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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby yan kong » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 pm

I have not read the entire back and forth between Lance and Floating Abu because it largely seemed to be based on misunderstanding, though I could be wrong.

The way I read Lance's first contribution to this thread was simply to give a first hand experience with Mondo Zen as information which is different from that information which can be found on the internet about Mondo Zen. Though I could be wrong in the way I read it because honestly I am lost as to why the arguement over the experience has gone on for so many lengthy posts.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby DGA » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:08 pm


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Qing Tian
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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby Qing Tian » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:52 am

“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”

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coldwater
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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby coldwater » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:21 am

The long posts between Abu were unfortunate and I kept responding to the series of her accusations about me. In retrospect I should have ignored it earlier or it could have been moderated.

Also having experience with cults, almost all of the dharma organizations in the West are cult franchises and have carefully crafted (manipulative?) wording about Dana, inviting generosity and so forth. Most are based around a teacher who is "spiritual advisor" with a close devotee as CEO of the non-profit. Mondo ain't my jam but they are transparent and will attract the students that want to drop big bucks- but my experienc of the local group wasn't money based and did "just sitting". I think it less tacky than putting " $125 dana" and then to shame for not giving the suggested "donation".

As Jikan said ( and as I have experienced with other dharma organizations) their online and corporate presentation is at times different than the individual/local groups. How is that disturbing? I wanted to respond with actual experience rather than speculative witch hunting based on Internet readings. If the organization is ill intentioned it won't last long.

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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby Qing Tian » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:40 am

“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”

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coldwater
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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby coldwater » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:03 am

Agreed, and I think that observation is not unique but a given because the Internet and reality are not the same. The Internet isn't a dynamic experience of any situation.

Were you intending to practice with them- thus the interest? I would say that site might be more representative of their founder rather than the other teachers... But that is based on the one teacher I know. Also I would suggest checking out other Zen groups before as it seems like you already are not into their "product". You would probably save some money as well.

Slightly off topic...but I see a lot of parallels in this and other Zen and Tibetan orgs with what is/has happened in yoga communities in America. Leave it to America to make everything into a product. Yoga gained popularity around the same time in America and has it's fair share of scandals or those looking to sell the dharma. Now the camps are quite distinct and people can choose to buy it, comment on those selling it or ignore both an carry on with a practice. The yoga community at large has had to deal with the TMing, documentation, certification and marketing of it's spirituality. As a result muh dialogue around it collecitvely. In my opinion I feel that discussion is still behind for Buddhism. Check out the recent Anusara empire and implosion, another (tacky) TM org. Fell apart of course due to sex, money and power consolidation.

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Qing Tian
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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby Qing Tian » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:38 am

I have little interest in Mondo Zen (TM) beyond a small commentary from the sidelines, as it were. Others can draw their own inferences.
“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”

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Re: Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (tm)

Postby DGA » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:27 pm



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