How exactly does karma work?

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby Jeff » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:11 pm

zenkarma wrote:
catmoon wrote:Rounding a corner you immediately notice there is a flaming pit in the middle of the road. Having accumulated a certain amount of experience with flaming pits by now, you give it a wide berth and continue unharmed. This is Enlightenment.


Are you certain of this? Maybe enlightenment is realizing that you and the flaming pit are fundamentally not different. In which case the problem never arises.


Clarity.

:smile:
Jeff
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:22 pm

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby zenkarma » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:09 pm

catmoon wrote:
Precisely. However, for those who may be attempting emptiness at home, it should be pointed out that knowing there is no fundamental difference does not make one immune to flaming pits. Flaming pits should still be assiduously avoided, and even with parental supervision, jumping into flaming pits is certain to result in screaming agony, mental torment, existential crisis, permanent injury and Justin Bieber music.


Re mistaken identity, how do you know i wasnt talking about the pit?
If i hate someone, that person i hate isnt really "out there" or everyone would hate them. Like others though, they have friends, family etc that like and respect them. Maybe flaming pits are like this too. :smile:
The substance of the Absolute is inwardly like wood or stone, in that it is motionless, and outwardly like the void, in that it is without bounds or obstructions. It is neither subjective nor objective, has no specific location, is formless, and cannot vanish. ~Huang Po
zenkarma
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:56 pm

Again the same answer: ultimately yes, relatively, no.

Refer to this quote viewtopic.php?f=77&t=10297&p=131398&hilit=emptiness+enemy#p131398
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby catmoon » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:30 pm

Let me try to say what Greg is saying another way. There are these two truths, relative and ultimate, and the surest way to tie one's mind into hopeless knots is to confuse them and mis-apply them. The classic example is the guy who steps in front of a bus because he knows its empty. Splat.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
 
Posts: 2916
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby Jeff » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:31 pm

catmoon wrote:Let me try to say what Greg is saying another way. There are these two truths, relative and ultimate, and the surest way to tie one's mind into hopeless knots is to confuse them and mis-apply them. The classic example is the guy who steps in front of a bus because he knows its empty. Splat.


Are "relative" and "ultimate" truths different for a Buddha?

:smile:
Jeff
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:22 pm

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby JohnRammy » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:45 pm

Red Faced Buddha wrote:I've always assumed karma didn't play much of a role in a person's life.However,others think otherwise.Take for instance Angulimala,the killer who was converted by Buddha.While he was with the other monks begging for food,some people attacked him with stones and he had to flee to live.This was supposed to be because of his karma.So karma manifested through the people.So would they have been punished for attacking the monk?But they were simply agents of Angulimala's bad karma.Does this mean people are robots,all their actions simply motivated by karma?



Nobody has ever shown me that karma is a fundamental Buddhist teaching.

Where does karma fit into the 12 links of Dependent Origination?

Where does it fit into Madhyamaka?

Even Buddha in the Pali Canon dismisses karma
Everything lacks the identity (atman) imputed by mere conceptual labels.
JohnRammy
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:42 am

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:28 am

JohnRammy wrote:Nobody has ever shown me that karma is a fundamental Buddhist teaching....Even Buddha in the Pali Canon dismisses karma
Well, you must be reading a different Pali Canon to the one I have seen, either that or you have no idea what you are talking about. Check this out for starters: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/search_r ... -8&q=kamma

I'll get back to you on the Madhyamaka and Dependent Origination questions. It's late here in Greece!
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby JohnRammy » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:00 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
JohnRammy wrote:I'll get back to you on the Madhyamaka and Dependent Origination questions. It's late here in Greece!
:namaste:


which one of the 12 links of dependent origination is karma?

number 6?

number 3?
Everything lacks the identity (atman) imputed by mere conceptual labels.
JohnRammy
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:42 am

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby viniketa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:21 am

JohnRammy wrote:which one of the 12 links of dependent origination is karma?


All 12. DO is a description of karma in action.

:namaste:
If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment
User avatar
viniketa
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:39 am
Location: USA

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby JohnRammy » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:07 am

viniketa wrote:
JohnRammy wrote:which one of the 12 links of dependent origination is karma?


All 12. DO is a description of karma in action.

:namaste:



I hope you can prove that.
Everything lacks the identity (atman) imputed by mere conceptual labels.
JohnRammy
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:42 am

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:39 am

JohnRammy wrote:I hope you can prove that.
Some more homework for you. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby viniketa » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:51 pm

JohnRammy wrote:I hope you can prove that.


There is no need to prove it as it has already been proven. Here is support of the proof for your benefit:

Upanisa Sutta

The Meaning of Life: Buddhist Perspectives on Cause & Effect

How Karma Works: The Twelve Links of Dependent-Arising



:namaste:
If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment
User avatar
viniketa
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:39 am
Location: USA

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby seeker242 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:22 pm

It seems to me that trying to figure out exactly how karma and all the minute details work, will just make you go crazy. :crazy:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
User avatar
seeker242
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:50 pm
Location: South Florida, USA

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby plwk » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:45 pm

For pea brains like me, this works ...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"'Kamma should be known. The cause by which kamma comes into play should be known. The diversity in kamma should be known. The result of kamma should be known. The cessation of kamma should be known. The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?

"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.

"And what is the cause by which kamma comes into play? Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play.

"And what is the diversity in kamma? There is kamma to be experienced in hell, kamma to be experienced in the realm of common animals, kamma to be experienced in the realm of the hungry shades, kamma to be experienced in the human world, kamma to be experienced in the world of the devas. This is called the diversity in kamma.

"And what is the result of kamma? The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right here & now, that which arises later [in this lifetime], and that which arises following that. This is called the result of kamma.

"And what is the cessation of kamma? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of kamma; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.

"Now when a disciple of the noble ones discerns kamma in this way, the cause by which kamma comes into play in this way, the diversity of kamma in this way, the result of kamma in this way, the cessation of kamma in this way, & the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of kamma.

"'Kamma should be known. The cause by which kamma comes into play... The diversity in kamma... The result of kamma... The cessation of kamma... The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.' Thus it has been said, and in reference to this was it said.
For anything beyond this dial 1800-Buddha...
plwk
 
Posts: 2456
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Re: How exactly does karma work?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:21 pm

Jeff wrote:
catmoon wrote:Let me try to say what Greg is saying another way. There are these two truths, relative and ultimate, and the surest way to tie one's mind into hopeless knots is to confuse them and mis-apply them. The classic example is the guy who steps in front of a bus because he knows its empty. Splat.


Are "relative" and "ultimate" truths different for a Buddha?

:smile:
There is no relative and ultimate truth for a Buddha, they are beyond all dualism.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Previous

Return to Open Dharma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Johnny Dangerous, Lotus108, smcj, supermaxv and 10 guests

>