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Jhanas v. Vipassana - Page 7 - Dhamma Wheel

Jhanas v. Vipassana

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:57 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby Alex123 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:16 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:08 am


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reflection
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby reflection » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:00 am


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beeblebrox
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby beeblebrox » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:27 pm


Kenshou
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby Kenshou » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:13 pm

"Consciousness" (or "awareness") really can be such a problematic word, because of the varied and confused definitions that are flying around. Not on this forum I mean, but in real life.

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Alex123
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby Alex123 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:44 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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beeblebrox
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby beeblebrox » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:29 pm

To get this paticca-samuppada to start rolling, from here, to the beyond... first we need to accept the ignorance. Period. There is no other way.

And then we move on to making our formations. We shouldn't be afraid that this will lead us to our own aging, many sufferings, and then the death... it's inevitable. That's what practice is for.

From these formations, try to make an appropriate consciousness the best that you can. With this consciousness, discern all of the names and forms. From this, create the six sense-bases. Use these bases to make contact with all of the objects.

Whatever feelings you have with these objects, study them. If there are cravings, study this. Eliminate any of the clingings that you can see; become something from what remains... and then you're born. Study the suffering the best that you can, and then let this die.

That is the only way to develop. This is the vipassana as I understand it. Whatever jhanas one might have, they only help with this, or they can distract one from it.

:anjali:

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daverupa
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby daverupa » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:47 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby beeblebrox » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:50 pm

If a person doesn't think that he's ignorant... then he's delusional. He keeps on suffering.

:anjali:

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daverupa
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby daverupa » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:13 pm

Perhaps "accept" --> "realize" (.../eradicate/develop) per SN 56.11? As avijja is ignorance of the four noble truths, one should have a relationship with the four noble truths as taught there.

:
"This suffering, as a noble truth, should be fully realized..."

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beeblebrox
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby beeblebrox » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:25 pm

Right, just hearing about the four noble truths doesn't mean realization. This is the ignorance that we have to work with, by going through the paticca samuppada of our own practices.

It seems like some people get stuck on their ignorance, and try to fix this by reading the four noble truths over and over. They don't move on to the next steps (formations, consciousness, etc.), which is a mistake.

Or they think that by skipping all of these steps, then this means that they're not ignorant... which is delusional.

:anjali:

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daverupa
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby daverupa » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:54 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby beeblebrox » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:56 pm

Then, I guess the people who haven't entered the stream are stuck...

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reflection
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby reflection » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:55 pm


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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

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