Jinzang wrote:Astus wrote:I've read the manual and besides its language and using some psychological terms and ideas it is within the limits of a Zen Buddhist training. In fact, to me it looks very good as a modern application of classical techniques. It is to the point, step by step and helpful.
The terminology used is idiosyncratic. I don't know, it looks like meditation practice is destined to merge with the self-help movement and we'll see more hybrids like this. My feeling is that it's wrong to validate the experience of new practitioners. Whatever you validate they will hang onto and will eventually become an obstacle. Better to say, no, no, no, try harder. This drives people away, I'm sure, but its not about the numbers, unless you're in it for the money.
Jikan wrote:I know next to nothing about the situation surrounding Shimano
coldwater wrote:Hello all,
New person here...I sometimes poke around but not a contributor. I keep a distance in fear I get too heady about practice as is my tendency.
Though I hesitate...thought this might be a relevant subject to give a two cents on if it might be helpful.
I just sat with some Mondo people and had some of the same suspicions brought up by many here but suspended them in the attempt to experience it before believing myself. So here go my impressions!
It was a half day retreat this last Sat. It was a mix of regular students and some new ones. About 10 people I'd say and 2 priests. It was a by donation event, held in a public library and seemed like a pretty sincere group of people doing their thing. Some of the text, a reading from a book of collected teachings by their founder Junpo, seemed a bit like a reaction to the shortcomings of Japanese Zen tradition/institution (as there are always in institutions). It had a 'feeling' or a 'tone' of this a lot. Defining itself through what it is not. Maybe this was reactionary to the Shimano situation and Junpo's involvement and issues with it. That aside there wasn't anything shady about it. As young and new as it was...it seemed very authentic in trying to present a Buddhism that was relevant to the community it was serving at that time. An emphasis on 'embodying the experience' in daily life rather than deifying/worshiping Buddha/Dharma. Maybe appealing to certain types of western raised people looking more for a philosophy or method of awakening than a religion? I dunno. Basically some honest folks figuring it out together as best they can? Whether this new take on Rinzai will be enduring is hard to say but what tradition and form has been truly forever?
I had some serious skepticism in the beginning as a friend of mine was involved and the TM set up some red flags for me. When I met her teacher I was impressed by her directness, open attitude and embodiment as a human. So I went to one of the sits to check it out. Taught me a lesson in jumping to conclusions about what people post on their website...and what it is in real life to practice with those same folks. Apparently the TM is because people pop up with traditions/lineages a lot and it was aimed at 'protecting' the structure and technique from people who might want to abuse it for financial gain or wrongly/incorrectly claim and transmit the thing...?
The psychological language and the daily service we did seemed a little bit of this and a little bit of that to me...but was overall thoughtful, meaningful and not too dramatically out of line with more traditional Japanese flavor Zen. Maybe just a more casual and relaxed atmosphere with some eclectic additions. It was interesting to sit with other people from a different tradition and see what spoke to them as a personal and group practice. Wasn't my jam at all in the end...but I suppose that is why there are 84,000 doors to the dharma.
Jinzang wrote:If the goal of Zen is to see through delusion, how is a modernized Zen going to see through the delusions of modernism? The truth is neither tradition or modernism is going to save us, but it easier for a modern person to see the faults of tradition and resist them than to see the faults of modernism.
Check for yourself. Look past the language of advertising. You are sitting with creativity and freedom right now and no one can give it to you or take it away. You choose how to live this moment.
coldwater post # 1 wrote:(Mondo Zen, Integral Zen (TM)) seemed very authentic in trying to present a Buddhism that was relevant to the community it was serving at that time. An emphasis on 'embodying the experience' in daily life rather than deifying/worshiping Buddha/Dharma.
coldwater post # 2 wrote:1) Genuine practitioners wouldn't deify as the Buddha is not a deity to be worshipped. Those who deify will inevitably deify though and may go through phases of their relationship to 'Buddha'. I am sure there is internal variances among people, denominations, organizations and so forth. I was simply saying how the Mondo info available has defined itself...could have been in response to an experience of this deification attitude, at some point, by the founder and/or members.
Jikan wrote:quoted from lance's blog:Check for yourself. Look past the language of advertising. You are sitting with creativity and freedom right now and no one can give it to you or take it away. You choose how to live this moment.
This is good advice. I think it is very much in the spirit of Abu's posts in this thread as well!
These long sets of sitting and walking meditation make up only the Genuine Insight portion of the Hollow Bones Five Element Training methodology. Fortunately, Mondo Zen offers four more allies to complement this bold journey. Every morning and evening we would have Conscious Embodiment sessions where we would do various qi gong, yoga, and kung fu forms to keep our minds in our bodies, our focus on our breath, and our bodies limber and strong to endure the long sits. Each day we would also engage in the Mondo Zen Koan Ego Deconstruction and Emotional Awareness Intervention process that Roshi has been fine-tuning for over 30 years. This process combines Socratic dialogue with Neuro-Linguistic Programming to systematically take apart the participant's false sense of self, and then give them a key to access the deeper, ever-present state of meditation whenever emotionally challenging charges come looking for violent responses. ....It took a while to figure-out what to say, but once the ego got rolling, I was off on a raucous bender of self-indulgent blather. I felt drunk by the end of the night, not caring as I casually stumbled across my previously cherished impeccable formalities
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