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Jhanas v. Vipassana - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

Jhanas v. Vipassana

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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daverupa
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby daverupa » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:33 pm


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reflection
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby reflection » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:16 pm

The distinction between samatha and vipassana is highly exaggerated. I think the Buddha never meant it the way a lot of people interpret it nowadays. Calm and insight are basically the same thing. You can't practice one without the other, or do one before the other, these ideas I would almost call nonsense. The fact some people call their meditation "insight meditation" is just a marketing thing. And people buy it.. But you could just as easy get insights from metta or calm meditation -maybe even easier because you aren't expecting anything-. These insights then support the calm, and deeper calm leads to deeper insights etc, etc, until we are enlightened. Not until then have we completed the path of insight and jhanas. You can't go into jhanas without having a dose of insight and you can't have deeper insights without these absorptions.

Remember, the path is the 8-fold path. Not a 1-fold, 2-fold or even a 7-fold won't work. So of course this path also needs the reflection on death and the cultivation of the four immeasurables etc, but still it really all is the same thing, one path towards waking up.

With metta,
Reflection

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Alex123
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby Alex123 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:27 pm

Hello Reflection,

I like what you say here.


When one does, lets say, Mahasi's insight method, what does one observe? One observes what arises in the present moment.
When one does Goenka's vipassana method, what does one observe? One observes the feelings that arise in the present moment in the body.

When one does "Samatha" Method of Ajahn Brahm, especially first two steps, what does one observe? One observes what arises in the present moment. When one reaches his super deep level, what does one observe? One observes the present moment so closely that one cannot think about it. Thoughts are always about what has just happened (even if split second ago), they are always at least split second after what they are supposed to observe.

So while certain technicalities of practice are different (label or be silently aware), (Sweep the body or observe it at entire body at a time), the effect seems to aim at the careful attention/observation of the present moment.

In fact, it seems that silent awareness of the present moment can go even deeper and more immediate than labeling because one is not distracted from present moment by paying attention to labels which always lag what they label, and thus focuses entirely on the present moment rather than commentary of it (even if it is one word).


IMHO.


With metta,

Alex
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:56 pm


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reflection
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby reflection » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:44 pm

Last edited by reflection on Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:52 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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reflection
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby reflection » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:52 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby Alex123 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:29 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Ben
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:25 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:02 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:11 am


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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:18 am


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reflection
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby reflection » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:23 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:43 am


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reflection
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby reflection » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:54 am

I personally found it not a very helpful tool to get in the moment, but that's me. Apart from that, it seems we agree.

:namaste:

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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:59 am


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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:55 am


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reflection
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby reflection » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:06 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

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reflection
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Re: Jhanas v. Vipassana

Postby reflection » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:00 pm



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