Generally, there is consciousness after conception, so willful abortion is considered killing. This issue is to be taken seriously.
However, we live in a world where often a clear-cut right-or-wrong decision is not possible. One needs to consider individual circumstances and make the decisions carefully.
There is no highest decision body in Buddhism that dictates what stance to take on these complicated issues. Instead, we aim to make people understand the karma consequences involved in each decision. For example, if a woman were raped and became pregnant, if she can, through her Buddhist practice, let go of her anger, keep and raise the child in peace, then this would be the best situation where she managed to turn “bad karma” into “good karma.” If she were unable to do this and went through with the abortion, she should seek refuge in the Buddha’s teachings, learn of ways to pacify herself and quench the enmity the aborted child would have toward her.
We should also look deeper into the causes of these problems: delusion, lust, disrespect, and anger, and work on transforming these mental-tendencies in each one of us into wisdom, discipline, respect, and compassion.
Will: you just keep repeating abortion is murder...there is really no sense talking to you on this.
You will find on one here nor pretty much anywhere that states abortion is a good thing.
That just is not being stated by anyone, check the posts....
I will not deny Hsuan Hua was a great teacher and master but his words are his words and they state as will quotes and You-Bin Chen states... the Buddha states..."If one deliberately has an abortion and the fetus dies, one commits 'an offense that cannot be repented of.'"
That is pretty unequivocal. Others in Buddhism state otherwise. Who is wrong or right.....that is a personal decision.
The subject of this thread(the quote), combined with the title..no killing...makes a statement. That statement is.....this is prohibited in Buddhism.....Yes, I take exception to that statement and verse argument opposeing.
It's certainly fine to hold view personally, to combine personal view with lineage holders opinion on that thing and post such not in a place only for lineage holders of Chan but in a general Mahayana place....that may be opposed in general Mahayana contexts...which it is.
If this is moved to Chan view holders only place....I withdraw all comments. Till then I remain with opposition.
ronnewmexico wrote:the middle ground is already firmly established and taken in this thing....so you may also hold to it or claim a part to it, but personal understanding or not....it is quite taken(good try though).
ronnewmexico wrote:Well Bodhi
You are claiming the middle ground in this discusion. That is fine to do but first you must show my position as dogmatic or not middle. I contend my position is middle....abortion is harmful negative but circumstances sometimes dictate its employement, thusly it is not always the absolutely worst choice in a spiritual context, bad choice it always is.
So you may add to, as in claiming to be middle, also, but to address me and reference dogmaticism...you must first prove or show such to be so....and then claim middle ground.
To simply address me, make statement and then claim the middle in a discussion..no, sorry things in discussion or debate do not work in that fashion.
To clarify. Prove my position isn't middle by pointing to flaws in my logic and hence the presence of dogmaticism, to simply state such....is not proving point.
So I reject your claim... this, what I support.... is not middle ground and thusly offer counter and await response...
Seems fairly clear.
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