caffeine addiction

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

caffeine addiction

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:39 pm

A minor thing really in the big scheme of things for me, but I am terribly addicted.

I wonder if anyone else with this experience has advice?
"We're chained to the world and we all gotta pull" -Tom Waits
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2907
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Seishin » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:47 pm

Some years ago I went cold turkey, but I understand that my caffeine intake was mild compared to many others. Still it took nearly two weeks to get over the head aches and constant hot/cold feeling. I've been going back on the caffeine as of lately to get me through the early years of parenthood :tongue: but my intake doesn't go anywhere near what it used to be, and from 6pm each night it's decaf all the way :smile:

Try decafe every other drink. :smile:

Gassho,
Seishin.
User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
 
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby catmoon » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:52 pm

From time to time I just cold turkey it. No coffee, tea, chocolate or cola. The usual result is a headache that lasts for two days and then no more problems. For a while. But then it starts to get harder and harder to function in the morning and I start in again with 1 at 10 am each day, and a year later it's going full blast again.

Caffeine is a useful thing, but one adapts to it very quickly and soon all the daily "booster shot" does is hold off withdrawal symptoms like the craving. So we drink more, and we adapt to that and so it goes.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
 
Posts: 2995
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby KeithBC » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:51 pm

catmoon wrote: No coffee, tea, chocolate or cola.

OK, no coffee or tea, no cola, I understand. But no chocolate?? Are you mad?? Chocolate is one of the four food groups! It's the staff of life! Without chocolate, life is meaningless! :tantrum:

*Ahem*! We now return you to your regular programming.

Om mani padme hum
Keith
User avatar
KeithBC
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:22 pm
Location: East Coast of Canada

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:52 pm

Try switching to Organic Yerba Maté. It's less jittery, more even, and has no crash; whereas green/black tea and coffee (or at least mycotoxins-tainted coffee) are often jittery and/or come with a crash.

As for coffee, make sure that it's Bulletproof Coffee:

Arabica Bean, Organic, Wet-Processed, Grown in High-Elevation, Single-Source or Single-Origin; just add a tablespoon or two each of Organic Unfiltered/Unprocessed Coconut-oil and Organic Grass-fed Butter and/or Organic Ghee (clarified butter), maybe a little Raw-Honey for sweetness, and blend.

Or at least make sure that it's good coffee (Arabica Bean, Organic, Wet-Processed, Grown in High-Altitude, Single-Source or Single-Origin)

Why?

Read this:

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/why-bad- ... -you-weak/

(Cheap coffee (Folgers, Starbucks, etc.) often grows a mold known as mycotoxins)


Good coffee:

http://www.boreshacoffee.com/coffee.aspx

http://www.bobandjunescoffee.com/buy_coffee.php

http://www.premiumorganiccafe.com/Caffe ... B0088FAFJK

https://caffeibis.com/index.php?categor ... &Itemid=40

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/coffee


Bulletproof Yerba Maté is excellent too. :thumbsup:
User avatar
Lhug-Pa
 
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Thrasymachus » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:21 pm

There are lots of coffee imitations made mostly of barley that taste just like coffee. I personally use Teeccino for a brewed coffee imitation and Cafix as a substitute for instant coffee. Coffee is laden with toxins and the caffeine in it is very bad for your central nervous system, good thing I stopped. Now I just drink the mock barley coffee and tea. But then again I am totally unlike most people in my society who treat their bodies as a toxic waste dump, but their possessions as irreplaceable.

Also doesn't this topic belong more in the alternative health section?
Last edited by Thrasymachus on Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Thrasymachus
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Dover, NJ

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:23 pm

Thrasymachus wrote:Coffee is laden with toxins and the caffeine in it is very bad for your central nervous system, good thing I stopped.


But that's only if one gets bad coffee.

Bad coffee (Folgers, Starbucks, etc.) is as different from good coffee (Arabica Bean, Organic, Wet-Processed, Grown in High-Elevation, Single-Source or Single-Origin) as night is from day.

Please see my previous post.

Edit:

Organic Barley according to Tibetan Medicine is one of the best foods you can eat all around though.
User avatar
Lhug-Pa
 
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Thrasymachus » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:42 pm

There is no good or bad coffee. Coffee spikes your central nervous system, promotes hypoglycemia/chronically low blood sugar(especially if consumed with dairy and sugar as most do), etc. You can say there is coffee is less worse than other coffee out there. For me, as a health freak compared to most people, I don't see the point of that path. You can consume tea which has much less caffeine, but it also has other beneficial compounds like theanine which is known to produce calming and relaxing effects, that tempers the already low caffeine content and anti-oxidants. Coffee will always be net disease promoting, but you can believe whatever nonsense you want that an expensive boutique coffee maker is promoting via their marketing.

Another thing which I found in a local Latino supermarket chain called Bravo is a few companies that sell healthy teas made from beneficial, medicinal herbs and plants native to Central and South America like chanca piedra:
Rainforest Database wrote:Chanca Piedra (Phyllanthus niruri)
...

With its applications for kidney stones and gallstones, cellular and liver protection, hypertension and high cholesterol, cancer prevention, and its pain-relieving and antiviral effects, it is gaining in popularity on many continents as an effective herbal remedy. It's also important to note that in all the research published over the last 20 years, no signs of toxicity or side effects have been reported in any of the human or animal studies, even in acute or chronic use.

...
User avatar
Thrasymachus
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Dover, NJ

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:52 pm

It's not only "boutique", or mere marketing like Coca-Cola selling "vitamin water" or something like that. It's Organic Coffee that's grown very specifically (so that it does not grow mycotoxins) and is grown without synthetic-chemicals (pesticides, preservatives, etc.).

The reason why cheap coffee is so bad for you is the mycotoxins (and pesticides) from getting processed in the wrong way. Sure, any coffee in excess will be bad for the nervous system. However in moderation, any possible downside to good-coffee-caffeine would be counteracted by the healthy fats and MCT's from blending in Organic Unfiltered Coconut-oil and Organic Grass-fed Butter and/or Organic Ghee (and Raw-Honey to raise blood-sugar a bit) with good coffee.

Healthy fats are good for the nervous system & brain and also help to regulate body-fat and reduce cholesterol; that is, if one is overweight then good fats will help to reduce body-fat, and if one is underweight good fats can help to maintain healthy body-weight. So complex-carbohydrates (fruits, sweet-potatoes, etc.) and good fats (Organic Olive-oil, Avocado oil, Coconut-oil, Grass-fed Butter etc.) are great for you, whereas simple-carbs and bad fats are much of what cause people to become overweight.

And also, like I edited into my previous post:

Organic Barley according to Tibetan Medicine is one of the best foods you can eat all around though.

And I'd like to mention Yerba Maté again.

I'll have to look into Bravo products too. Thanks. I sometimes get my Yerba Maté (La Merced brand which some of their products are certified Organic, however I think that all of their products are Organic or close-to) from a South American market.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Lhug-Pa
 
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Thrasymachus » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:07 pm

I think you are seriously confused.

Lhug-Pa wrote:... Sure, any coffee in excess will be bad for the nervous system. However in moderation ...


If something is net disease promoting that is what you have to say! However, if every morning I instead brewed a gallon of green tea and drink from that throughout the day, I would be healthier than if I just consumed plain water. If I consume the maximum Vitamin C to bowel tolerance, I will be healthier than if I didn't. If you say something taken as supplement has to be restricted, likely it is because it is bad!

To be clear, Bravo is a supermarket chain that likely has a limited geographic reach in the USA, if there is a Latino community where you live, their ethnic markets will have a good chance of having some of the medicinal teas which you do not have to give all sort of caveats like you did for what you allege is healthy coffee. Also you seem likely influenced by the Paleo nonsense and bad trends of Tibetan wannabe-ism. The Tibetans eating their traditional diet which has heavily based on animal products, before there was even the organic, non-organic dichotomy created by pesticide and fertilizer based agriculture after WWII barely ever made it past their fifties, and even then in bad health! Is that really an example to follow or emulate? Again if their diet predicated on animal products was actually net health promoting, the historical record would have proven different, but it proved instead that their diet was overall disease promoting.
User avatar
Thrasymachus
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Dover, NJ

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:41 pm

Thrasymachus,

Just because something (such as good-quality organic coffee) is said to be good only if taken in moderation, doesn't mean that it's necessarily net-disease promoting if taken in moderation.

And when you say "If I consume the maximum Vitamin C to bowel tolerance" that's also a caveat/restriction. So with all-due-respect your argument contradicts itself here (by the way, I don't deny that real whole-food Vitamin C such as from fruits, red-bell-peppers, from whole-food raw vitamins, etc. is good for you. Ascorbic acid on the other hand is marketed as "Vitamin C" by big-pharma and co., however ascorbic acid is merely only one part of what makes up whole-Vitamin-C, so be careful).

Also, before jumping to conclusions on Tibetan life-expectancy let's look at some non-Chinese or non-European sources, on the life-expectancy of Tibetans before the "cultural revolution".
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:14 pm, edited 6 times in total.
User avatar
Lhug-Pa
 
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Jikan » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:42 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:A minor thing really in the big scheme of things for me, but I am terribly addicted.

I wonder if anyone else with this experience has advice?


I'm a horrible addict as well. Here's what I do when it's time to prepare for retreat or training during which coffee is not available by the literjon, if at all.

*Take your time and cut back slowly. HYDRATE. Ease back bit by bit by bit by bit over a period of weeks. Don't go cold turkey; it can (according to my MD) put you at risk for heart trouble, and it's just awful. Seishin had it easy if he was only miserable for two weeks.

*When you get down to one cup of coffee daily (tea is easier to quit because it's less caffeinated overall), stay there for a couple of weeks. Then...

*Turn that cup into 3/4s of a cup for a day or two. Then down again. Switch to tea, but be careful, because you'll have to pee a lot more; that's a diuretic you're putting into your body. Budget extra time for piss stops.

*Then stop doing all that, take some aspirin one day, and pretend there's no such thing as coffee. That's like pretending there's no such thing as sex, but if it gets you through, then you're good, right?
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5662
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Jikan » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:42 pm

I love you, coffee. :coffee:

I miss you when you're gone.
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5662
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby lobster » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:42 am

In the UK we have barley cup and yogi teas are both expensive and excellent. I just made a flask of herbal tea (sorrel and ginger). Just drink more non caffiene products. Beneficial behaviour is habit forming. :woohoo:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby lotwell » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:38 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Organic Barley according to Tibetan Medicine is one of the best foods you can eat all around though.


I wonder if that's because, besides to dry yak meat, that's the only option up there...?
lotwell
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:59 pm

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:50 pm

Thrasymachus and Lhug-pa, please leave aside your pet obsessions and keep the conversation on topic.

Thank you.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 10193
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Ayu » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:29 pm

KeithBC wrote:
catmoon wrote: No coffee, tea, chocolate or cola.

OK, no coffee or tea, no cola, I understand. But no chocolate?? Are you mad?? Chocolate is one of the four food groups! It's the staff of life! Without chocolate, life is meaningless! :tantrum:

*Ahem*! We now return you to your regular programming.

Om mani padme hum
Keith

:rolling:
Wow, didn't laugh like this for long time.


@ Johnny D.: I'm adicted to coffee too - it's my last sin in this life. I stopped taking marihuana, LSD, alcohol, nicotine, overeating and CHOCOLATE !!! So now i enjoy my cup of coffee in the morning.
Once there was a time, my body could not stand coffee. I went over to black tea - this gives also the push to the circulation. That is nessesary for me, because of low blood pressure, but it is not so hard, heavy, strong.

So if you want to stopp any adiction: ask yourself 5 good reasons why to stop it. Write them on a card and put this in your pocket. Then, if you want to take the stuff, because you've forgotten the reasons, take out the card, read it and remember... You see, the reasons have to be very good, from the core of your heart.

To get rid of coffee is easy, one can reduce the quantity for some weeks - then the headache will not be so strong.
Metta, Karuna, Mudita, Upekha
*** om vajra krodha hayagrīva hulu hulu hūm phat**
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1227
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:24 pm

lotwell wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote:Organic Barley according to Tibetan Medicine is one of the best foods you can eat all around though.


I wonder if that's because, besides to dry yak meat, that's the only option up there...?


Tibetan Medicine does describe a very wide range of foods & herbs, so probably not.

It's just a hearty food that happens to have properties that promote strength:


Yeshi Dhonden wrote:Barley is heavy and cool. It increases feces and is supreme for generating strength.



(Gregkavarnos, it was rather unnecessary to try to frame our discussion as "pet obsessions". Anyway, okay. :focus: )
User avatar
Lhug-Pa
 
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Yudron » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:44 pm

Coffee people are to speedy, impatient, and irritable for me. But, that being said, I understand there are some large good studies showing daily consumption increases one's lifespan.
Yudron
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:55 pm
Location: Sunny California

Re: caffeine addiction

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:47 pm

Yudron wrote:Coffee people are to speedy, impatient, and irritable for me. But, that being said, I understand there are some large good studies showing daily consumption increases one's lifespan.


What is that supposed to mean just what do you mean by too impatient and speedy I don't think i'm too speedy maybe you're just too slow i'm really not sure what you're getting at but anyway I NEED MORE COFFEE NOW.
:)

Anyway yeah, it's a drug for sure.
"We're chained to the world and we all gotta pull" -Tom Waits
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2907
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Next

Return to Personal Experience

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

>