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 Post subject: Question about gods...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Do they have the power to heal physical diseases? This has sparked my curiosty when I read about a French nun who prayed to former pope John Paul and was apparently cured for her parkinson's disease.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:17 am 
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There also seems to be many other instances where faith—or even strong belief—is said to have been demonstrated as having physiological effects.

As for gods, there are practitioners who work with the Buddhas, Devas & Elementals or Elemental intelligences of plants, as it is said that the alkaloids of plants are not always enough in themselves to perform the complete healing, because the Elementals of the plants or the related Deity practice must be worked with as well (using prayers, Mantras, Mudras, blessings, etc.)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:49 am 
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The sufi have a saying - "trust in God but tie your camel first"
In other word, conventional means first, then the extra-normal

despite all common sense, despite septics, skeptiks and popes :rules:
faith moves even the gods . . . :heart:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:56 am 
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Lhug-Pa wrote:
As for gods, there are practitioners who work with the Buddhas, Devas & Elementals or Elemental intelligences of plants, as it is said that the alkaloids of plants are not always enough in themselves to perform the complete healing, because the Elementals of the plants or the related Deity practice must be worked with as well (using prayers, Mantras, Mudras, blessings, etc.)

Is there any basis for this in the sutras?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:29 pm 
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I have multiple questions I am confused about that I would like to discuss...

When did buddha say that a belief in god is unhealthy?
What words did he use?
Did he say faith in brahma is unhealthy???

Buddha said brahma did not create the universe and more specifically that there are higher heavens that brahma could not perceive...
Why do they still recognize brahma worlds as a heavens in the rupadhatu?
Seeing as how his lifespan is one mahakalpa did he atleast create the physical universe as we know it?
Did he create the earth?
Does he create the kamadhatu?
is there a distinct brahma world for every world system or a or one brahma world for our universe?

Are buddhas in the arupadhatu or is they unrelated?

Buddhas are here to help every sentient being in the universe attain buddhahood
What would it be like if this happened?
Would there be anything physical?
Would there be any form?
Sounds like an almost scary idea if no, but to enlighten every sentient being is the ultimat goal right???
What is this ultimate goal for our universe like conceptually?

Sorry for all the questions... no need to tackle it all at once we can break it down bit by bit if necessary

-max


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Sorry to disappoint, but there is really only one thing you need to know about gods and Brahma:
maxaroni13 wrote:
Buddha said brahma did not create the universe


Om mani padme hum
Keith


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:04 pm 
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I can't find the sutta on line, but there is one that says (and I'm paraphrasing) that Brahma was one of the first beings who wished not to be alone in the universe. In time, more beings came into existance and Brahma mistakenly believed he had created them with his wish. The same goes for planets and solar systems etc.
Elsewhere in the suttas, Brahma is said to be a sentient being, meaning he was born, one day will die, but he is incredibly old making beings such as ourselves view him as eternal.

If someone can help find the sutta on line that would be great :)

Gassho,
Seishin.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Brahmajala Sutra 40-42
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.01.0.bodh.html


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Quote:
At one time the Blessed One was staying at Kosambii in Si.msapaa Grove. Then the Blessed One, taking a few Si.msapaa leaves in his hand, said to the monks: "What do you think, monks? Which are the more numerous, the few leaves I have here in my hand, or those up in the trees of the grove?"

"Lord, the Blessed One is holding only a few leaves: those up in the trees are far more numerous."

"In the same way, monks, there are many more things that I have found out, but not revealed to you. What I have revealed to you is only a little. And why, monks, have I not revealed it?

"Because, monks, it is not related to the goal, it is not fundamental to the holy life, does not conduce to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, tranquillity, higher knowledge, enlightenment or Nibbaana. That is why I have not revealed it. And what, monks, have I revealed?

"What I have revealed is: 'This is Suffering, this is the Arising of Suffering, this is the Cessation of Suffering, and this is the Path that leads to the Cessation of Suffering.' And why, monks, have I revealed it?

"Because this is related to the goal, fundamental to the holy life, conduces to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, tranquillity, higher knowledge, enlightenment and Nibbaana, therefore I have revealed it.

"Therefore, monks, your task is to learn: 'This is Suffering, this is the Arising of Suffering, this is the Cessation of Suffering, this is the Path that leads to the Cessation of Suffering.' That is your task."


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html

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Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Out of curiosity, what reason do u have to believe in gods? I currently don't have an opinion on them as I think i haven't any experiences with them

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Existence can be normal.
Ex:a Apple tree is a apple tree
Ex:Michael is Michael, Michael is who Michael is


Existence can be conditioned.
Ex: Apple tree is apple tree if apple tree grows
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is not walking

Existence can be unconditioned
Ex: Apple is apple tree once apple tree is grown for 50 weeks
Ex: Michael is Michael once Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is content Michael once Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is discontent Michael once Michael is walking.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:07 pm 
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I don't think you should have attachments to these concepts, i think you should value freedom of suffering over anything

It seems to me like you might be feeling a bit threaten because Buddhism might be challenging your possible dellusions

_________________
Existence can be normal.
Ex:a Apple tree is a apple tree
Ex:Michael is Michael, Michael is who Michael is


Existence can be conditioned.
Ex: Apple tree is apple tree if apple tree grows
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is not walking

Existence can be unconditioned
Ex: Apple is apple tree once apple tree is grown for 50 weeks
Ex: Michael is Michael once Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is content Michael once Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is discontent Michael once Michael is walking.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Maxaroni13 -

Parable of the Arrow, and The Fourteen Unanswerable questions seem to me to address questions of this kind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_arrow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_u ... _questions

But yeah, Anatta and Anicca I think applies not only to us, but to anything conceivable in the world, it is all devoid of self and impermanent..I do not remember what Sutta, but there is one where I believe the Buddha specifically says that there is simply no such thing as an eternal consciousness or spirit, inside or out.

It seems like this addresses any questions of the importance of "god" or gods in the sense most commonly used - as omnipotent or omniscient.

As to the creation of the universe..I believe the Buddhas first sermon - Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (had to look it up, hope that's right) states that beginning or end of Samsara is inconceivable.so I take this to mean that from a Buddhist point of view if the universe was ever 'created' (which seems doubtful of and within itself in Buddhism), it was not created by any kind of prime mover or god.

As to what the world would be like with everyone enlightened...the idea you get is that this is inconceivable also, the ideas of "exists", doesn't exist, physical and mental simply do not apply, Nirvana is outside of all conditions, so as crazy as it sounds there is no way to describe what Nirvana is "like", much less to describe what it would be "like" for all sentient beings to be unbound.

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"We're chained to the world and we all gotta pull" -Tom Waits


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:58 am 
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maxaroni13 wrote:
I have multiple questions I am confused about that I would like to discuss...

When did buddha say that a belief in god is unhealthy?
What words did he use?
Did he say faith in brahma is unhealthy???

Buddha said brahma did not create the universe and more specifically that there are higher heavens that brahma could not perceive...
Why do they still recognize brahma worlds as a heavens in the rupadhatu?
Seeing as how his lifespan is one mahakalpa did he atleast create the physical universe as we know it?
Did he create the earth?
Does he create the kamadhatu?
is there a distinct brahma world for every world system or a or one brahma world for our universe?

Are buddhas in the arupadhatu or is they unrelated?

Buddhas are here to help every sentient being in the universe attain buddhahood
What would it be like if this happened?
Would there be anything physical?
Would there be any form?
Sounds like an almost scary idea if no, but to enlighten every sentient being is the ultimat goal right???
What is this ultimate goal for our universe like conceptually?

The higher being is the Lord Buddha
what are gods in relation to the Buddha?the Buddha is the teacher if gods,gods themselves are stuck in samsara,(6 transmigations,hell,ghosts,animals,humans,asuras,gods)
So gods are not to be called a refuge since they are stuck in samsara just like us.Only the Buddha should ve our refuge(nirvana sutra)

Peace an Love



Sorry for all the questions... no need to tackle it all at once we can break it down bit by bit if necessary

-max


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:44 pm 
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Nighthawk wrote:
Do they have the power to heal physical diseases? This has sparked my curiosty when I read about a French nun who prayed to former pope John Paul and was apparently cured for her parkinson's disease.


All disease is ultimately mind created.
Our mind is not our own, there is simply pure mind(awakened consciousness), this is the true nature.
Resistance to the truth(God) causes form(samsara)
samsara includes the heavenly realms(varying degrees of subtle mind-states), contact with these subtle planes of existence(mind-states) can help dissolve the more solidified hellish(mind-states)
that can cause physical diseases(cancer, parkinson's, heart attacks, etc...)
Remember that ultimately all form is a disease and has impermanent nature.

The example you gave is entirely possible but the cure did not come from an external source, it came from the nuns surrender to the truth. :smile:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Nighthawk wrote:
Do they have the power to heal physical diseases? This has sparked my curiosty when I read about a French nun who prayed to former pope John Paul and was apparently cured for her parkinson's disease.


I actually think this is bad, I think this is desire for understandment, one should not try and learn specific things in order to prevent suffering, one should try and prevent suffering and learn things on the road that will help prevent suffering. When prevention of suffering is the ultimate goal, nothing can be more rightful. I think attachment to understandment is one attachment that many awakened people struggle with. Knowledge will come, and it will be of the purest form as it has goal to prevent suffering.

_________________
Existence can be normal.
Ex:a Apple tree is a apple tree
Ex:Michael is Michael, Michael is who Michael is


Existence can be conditioned.
Ex: Apple tree is apple tree if apple tree grows
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is Michael if Michael is not walking

Existence can be unconditioned
Ex: Apple is apple tree once apple tree is grown for 50 weeks
Ex: Michael is Michael once Michael is a king
Ex: Michael is content Michael once Michael is walking
Ex: Michael is discontent Michael once Michael is walking.


Top
 Profile  
 
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