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Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:11 pm

Are you suggesting, Matheesha, that we should just believe everyone who says they're enlightened?
Are you suggesting that we should not challenge those who appear to be preying on the gullible?
What do you think we should do?
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:05 pm


chownah
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby chownah » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:51 pm

I think anyone who claims they are awakened should pinch themselves first just to be sure they aren't asleepened.
chownah

rowyourboat
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:07 pm

I guess I am suggesting .. that we can only know after associating with them for a long time, and not for a short time, with a person who is wise and attentive etc. Maybe we will acrue much demerit by challenging enlightened beings. Some might consider this type of demerit as a great obstacle to becoming enlightened ourselves :shrug: ..at least this is the cultural wisdom in Sri Lanka.

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:12 pm

A late enlightened master:

Image

And do not question it. The hair says it all.

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Ben
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:15 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:17 pm

:rofl: yes a picture is worth a thousand words :smile:

Well I think the Joe Public has a way of knowing about these things, which doesnt require challenging and poking. :jedi:

:namaste:
with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:23 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:26 pm


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Gregor
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Gregor » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:27 pm

Looks like there is a big number of 'enlightened' teachers today.
Daniel Ingram (interactivebuddha.com) also makes the same claim. As Ben discovered, for Linda the enlightenment means that she finally doesn't know anything and by Daniel's definition Arahat is the one with "mastery of the formed jhanas, formless realms, Nirodha Samapatti, and a few other traditional attainments"'. I cannot say how attained those two are but I really like the diversity of definitions :)

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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:33 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:36 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:50 pm


rowyourboat
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Location: London, UK

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:57 pm

I think that a benzodiazepine overdose would rule him/her out... unless (s)he was suffering from an incurable and extremely painful ilness.

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

chownah
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby chownah » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:58 am

In life "you pays your money 'n takes your chances."
chownah

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manas
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby manas » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:51 am

How do we know that the Buddha was really enlightened, either? We can't see him now, or hear his words directly, other than through suttas recorded millenia ago and handed down by monks, whose integrity and/or accuracy of memory we must rely upon if we are to assume that they are basically unaltered...?

We don't really know, unless we have seen (the truth he speaks of) for ourselves. Believe me, if I see for myself (within) the self-less nature of the five khandhas, I will throw myself to the ground before the Blessed One's feet in gratitude, a thousand times (metaphorically speaking), knowing that he was right all along, and that it was only because he so carefully established his Dispensation here (on Earth) that I had the good fortune to do so; and I will finally feel totally comfortable with calling myself a Buddhist. But if or until that happens, I can't say with certainty that the Buddha is indeed 'rightly self-awakened, blessed and holy'. I follow the Path he (is said to have) laid out for us, because in all my searching over my 42 years, I just can't find a better teacher. I've tried; but no-one else knows as much about the human condition and the ways of the heart-and-mind, as the Buddha does (as recorded in the suttas).

Maybe only the enlightened can truly recognize the enlightened, and the rest of us kind of just muddle along and do our best...?
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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daverupa
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby daverupa » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:35 am


santa100
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby santa100 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:04 am

Like in martial arts, a white belt while fighting a brown belt will only know that his senior teamate is good, but won't truely know about the brown belt's real "grade". It'll require someone better (the dojo master or the senior black belts) or at least someone equal to the brown belt to really know his grade. Of course this assumes the dojo has a fair and accurate belt ranking system :smile: So just like that, until we've cultivated great wisdom and boundless compassion, we won't really know for certain the extent of our Buddha's greatness. Anyway, this shouldn't stop us from following His instructions and work hard toward the end goal. The teaching makes a lot of sense, very concrete and doable. We just have to dive in and train hard. So, who's enlightened and who's not, does it really matter?

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:12 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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zavk
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby zavk » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:26 am

Ok, sorry I just couldn't resist.... when I first glanced at the title I read the name as:

Image

No ill intention, just sharing a laugh :smile:

(Please remove if inappropriate)

:focus:
With metta,
zavk


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