Time in Kalachakra

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Time in Kalachakra

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:00 am

Tashi Delek Luke, :)

Some tell that Kalachakra is a Tantra which does not belong to Buddhism.
Well i can imagine myself that would be, because the time line or Cosmological time is different then in general Buddhism and Hidhu, where we have the horizontal and verical cosmologicaL divisions.

Could You please explain to me this "time" seen in the light of the Kalachakra.
Got some years ago this Kalachakra initiation but never did the practice because my Lama did not find that so important, working or karma yoga did he seen for me as more important or better said working jobs and working jobs. This is the Lama mentality in Tibet only exceptions can do the practice and i was an exception a working horse which did not deserved the food....


Best wishes for our individual practice
Kalden Yungdrung
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
Luke
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Time in Kalachakra

Postby Luke » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:26 pm

Hi Kalden,

Sorry, but I'm really not qualified to say much about the Kalachakra Tantra. I have only received a few basic teachings from a Jonang lama. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to attend his Kalachakra teachings. Maybe other more knowledgeable peope could answer this. I just had this subforum created to prepare the way for more knowledgeable Jonangpa who might come later.

There is an interesting website called http://kalachakranet.org and you might find an answer to your questions there or in some of the books they recommend.

There is also a lot about Kalachakra on Dr. Berzin's website:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav ... 62326.html

As far as Kalachakra "not being Buddhist," I found this excerpt from kalachakranet.org:
KALACHAKRA AND OTHER RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS

Among the other practices of the Highest Yoga Tantra (Anuttarayoga in Skt.), the Kalachakra is in many aspects somewhat unusual. Many details in this system deviate from the other Buddhist tantras, but they are often also complementary to the other tantric systems. In fact, when the Kalachakra was first introduced in the great Buddhist university of Nalanda (India), these differences did cause some confusion. After extensive study, the greatest masters agreed the system was genuinely Buddhist, and the Kalachakra received its own place in the vast array of Mahayana Buddhist teachings. In many aspects, the Kalachakra system clearly shows its Buddhist core with concepts like renunciation, bodhicitta, emptiness, enlightenment etc. being of major importance to the practice. Kalachakra is also called the "clear" tantra, because its language is unusually clear and straightforward as compared to most other Highest Yoga Tantras.

As Vesna Wallace notes in [5], the Kalachakratantra appears to combine aspects of several different systems, including non-Buddhist systems of thought. For example, just in the part of cosmology, aspects can be found of the Vaibhashika, Puranic, Samkhya, Jaina, and of course the Buddhist Abidharma. Similarly, terminology of several Hindu traditions can be found, as well as terms from Ayurvedic medicine.

"...the Kalachakratantra adopts and redefines concepts characteristic of non-Buddhist systems, it also incorporates non-Buddhist cosmological views without reinterpreting them."
Vesna Wallace [5]

http://kalachakranet.org/kalachakra_tan ... ction.html

So, even though the Kalachakra Tantra had some non-Buddhist influences, over the centuries, Buddhist masters have turned it into a thoroughly Buddhist method. I'm sure that great masters such as H.H. the Dalai Lama and H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche wouldn't have bothered with Kalachakra if they felt that it was in some way contrary to Buddhism.

User avatar
Luke
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Time in Kalachakra

Postby Luke » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:52 pm

Aha, here is something about the concept of time in Kalachakra from the Berzin Archives:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... on_02.html

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: Time in Kalachakra

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:15 pm

Attachments
Kalachakra1.JPG
Kalachakra1.JPG (276.22 KiB) Viewed 3327 times
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4553
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Time in Kalachakra

Postby conebeckham » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:16 pm



"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: Time in Kalachakra

Postby kalden yungdrung » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:09 pm

Hello Conebeckham :)

Thanks for the post.

Yes you are right, a historical slippery from my side.
Like people who are awake :D

But the final result is that Shangpa has Jonang inside their lineage, so are they also the lineage holders of the Kalachkra Tantra.

Best wishes for our individual practice
Kalden Yungdrung
The best meditation is no meditation

Tashi Nyima
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:58 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Time in Kalachakra

Postby Tashi Nyima » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:16 pm

Dear Friends

om svasti

I was very happy to read of your interest in (and learned discussion of) the Kalachakra.

Very briefly, the apparent contradiction between the Kalachakra cosmology and those of other tantras has been satisfactorily settled from various angles of vision. In essence, each tantra or tantra cycle constitutes a Dharma gate, and the instructions found within it are intended to guide practitioners to the same ultimate destination, albeit by slightly different routes. If two persons are standing in different geographical locations in reference to the same city, but both wish to enter it from their respective starting points, they must of necessity approach via different paths.

desha-kala-patra (place, time, and recipient) dictate the skillful means that the Buddhas will employ to tame various beings. Fundamentally, any and all descriptions of reality are provisional and limited, as human language is inherently incapable of revealing and containing ultimate reality.

Please note that most of the material in the Berzin archives refers to the Ra lineage of the Kalachakra, as transmitted by the Gelukpas, and not to the Dro lineage, as maintained by the Jonangpas.

I would be happy to discuss this topic further, if there is interest, as the Six Branch Vajrayoga is the main practice of the New Jonangpas.


Return to “Jonang”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest