Huseng wrote:Psychiatry incidentally is a kind of decadent luxury in first world countries.
viniketa wrote:Which brings us back to the idea of a conflict between Buddhism and Western medicine. To what extent does a Buddhist view of self-healing contradict the idea of medical treatment of "mental" disorders? At what point do we draw the line? At a threat of suicide? Is it just that we ourselves do not want to deal with suicidal behavior and therefore are more comfortable relegating it to "professionals"? I honestly don't have an answer to this question.
viniketa wrote:Huseng wrote:Psychiatry incidentally is a kind of decadent luxury in first world countries.
Probably not so incidental, more "built in" to the culture. But the idea of "mental illness" is there, and has some recommended form of "treatment", in all cultures. The differences are in the behaviors defined as "mental illness", the causes theorized to produce such behaviors, and the treatments. One may call the condition "possession" by an "external" spirit, but the idea that the condition is non-normative and threatening is still there.
Like Youdron, I do not think of myself as an "apologist' of medicine. I recognize its limitations, but also many of its benefits. Even beyond psychiatry, the general state of medicine in the West is in bad shape, in my opinion, and it is largely due to the capitalistic appropriation of "cures" as commodities. There are many illnesses, mental and otherwise, that have no cure. It is the nature of degeneration and death among mortals. Most "treatments" are not designed as cures, but rather as methods to manage symptoms and avert immediate death.
Thomas Szasz wrote:... Psychiatrists have for hundreds of years used diagnostic terms, so called diagnostic terms, to stigmatize and control people. ... When black slaves in the South ran away to Freedom, it wasn't that they wanted to be free; they suffered from a disease called drapetomania, from drapetes, runaway slave, and mania. ... Women, half the population of mankind, if they were foolish enough to rebel against domination by man, well they then had a serious disease called hysteria, which was due to their wandering womb. ... Now none of those behaviors were ever a disease. ... No behavior or misbehavior is a disease or can be a disease. That's not what diseases are. ... If he is sick, there must be some objective science to it, which can be diagnosed by physicians and objective tests. ... When I went to medical school sixty years ago there were only a handful of mental diseases. I think there were no more than six or seven. Now there are more than three hundred. ... Labeling a child as mentally ill is stigmatization, not diagnosis. Giving a child a psychiatric drug is poisoning, not treatment. ...
Dr. Martin Harrow wrote:Factors Involved in Outcome and Recovery in Schizophrenia Patients Not on Antipsychotic Medications: A 15-Year Multifollow-Up Study(PDF)
Detailed analyses of those patients with schizophrenia on antipsychotic medications versus those not on medications at the 15-year follow-ups also were conducted. These analyses indicated that in addition to the significant differences in global functioning between these groups, 19 of the 23 schizophrenia patients (83%) with uniformly poor outcome at the 15-year follow-ups were on antipsychotic medications. The data on psychosis in Figure 1 show that at the 10-year follow-ups, 79% of the patients with schizophrenia on antipsychotics had psychotic activity, whereas 23% of those not on any medications had psychotic activity. Sixty-four percent of the schizophrenia patients treated with antipsychotic medications at the 15-year follow-ups had psychotic activity, whereas 28% of those not on any medications had signs of psychotic activity.
Huseng wrote:I've never seen western psychiatry cure anyone of their mental illness. Never. And I know a lot of mentally ill people. You might disagree, but I have little respect for the profession as it stands now.
Psychiatry incidentally is a kind of decadent luxury in first world countries. Elsewhere people can't afford to be mentally ill. Suicide rates in poor countries tend to be lower, too, probably because you can't afford the luxury of killing yourself, otherwise your family might starve. If you live in a relatively rich country your family might even get a sum of money for your death. Pharmacies, too, make a killer off all these kids with ADD and ADHD taking legal forms of smack.
This is little surprising as in the short term you may feel better, but that is because instead of increasing serotonin or dopamine to improve mood with natural methods like say exercise or prolonged meditation you are doing it artificially by pharmaceuticals, with numerous side effects. So the longer you are on them, the more pointless every life activity becomes compared to popping the next prescribed pill.
Huseng wrote:Suicide rates in poor countries tend to be lower, too, probably because you can't afford the luxury of killing yourself, otherwise your family might starve.
Daniel Everett wrote:Freakonomics: The Suicide Paradox: Full Transcript
I was still a very fervent Christian missionary, and I wanted to tell them how God had changed my life. So, I told them a story about my stepmother and how she had committed suicide because she was so depressed and so lost, for the word depressed I used the word sad. So she was very sad. She was crying. She felt lost. And she shot herself in the head, and she died. And this had a large spiritual impact on me, and I later became a missionary and came to the Piraha because of all of this experience triggered by her suicide. And I told this story as tenderly as I could, and tried to communicate that it had a huge impact on me. And when I was finished everyone burst out laughing.
When I asked them why are you laughing, they said: “She killed herself. That’s really funny to us. We don’t kill ourselves. You mean, you people, you white people shoot yourselves in the head? We kill animals, we don’t kill ourselves.” They just found it absolutely inexplicable, and without precedent in their own experience that someone would kill themselves.
Yudron wrote:Huseng wrote:Suicide rates in poor countries tend to be lower, too, probably because you can't afford the luxury of killing yourself, otherwise your family might starve.
The World Health Organization figures do not support this claim. http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide_rates/en/index.html
Huseng wrote:I've never seen western psychiatry cure anyone of their mental illness.
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