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"I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted" - Dhamma Wheel

"I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
chownah
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"I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby chownah » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:39 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:41 am

Greetings Chownah,

Do you have access to know what the Pali terms in question are?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

chownah
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby chownah » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:50 am

retrofuturist,
I don't have that ability and in fact one reason I posted this is in the hopes of getting different views and some further input as to its meaning.....knowing more fully the Pali behind this would be WONDERFUL.
chownah

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retrofuturist
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:58 am

Greetings Chownah,

Cool, no worries.

If you want this moved to the Pali forum in the hope of catching the eye of one of our resident Pali experts, just let us know.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

alan
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby alan » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:52 am

What is not explained in this sutta? If you read the whole thing that quote makes perfect sense. It sets up an argument for following the Dhamma and joining the sangha. The joke is on those who took that stuff about psychic powers seriously. The point is about the value of instruction.
There is no reason to refer this to the Pali section. Just read it again.
Last edited by alan on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ground
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby ground » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:04 am

The meanings of terms and language are contextually "colored". However reification of feelings that arise on visually contacting terms in isolation may entail imputing these feelings to the terms as such.

Kind regards

alan
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby alan » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:11 am

As always: I have no idea what you are trying to say.

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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby cooran » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:56 am

Hello chownah,

Maurice Walshe is the widely known translator of the whole Digha Nikaya from the Pali:
His translation reads:
‘’What do you think Kevaddha, would not a sceptic say that to a believer?’’ ‘He would, Lord.’ ‘And that is why, Kevaddha, seeing the danger of such miracles, I dislike, reject and despise them.’

The LongDiscourses of the Buddha – a translation of the Digha Nikaya – translated from the Pali by MauriceWalshe. Wisdom Publications, Boston.1987, 1995,

With metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

PeterB
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby PeterB » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:14 am


chownah
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby chownah » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:02 am


Freawaru
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby Freawaru » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:27 am


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:32 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

Jhana4
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:13 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

Jhana4
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:18 pm

Would a full Buddha feel horrified or disgusted about anything?

In addition to ambiguity in translation, maybe another possibility is the factor of "talking to the audience in terms they would understand". Using strong words to encourage someone to leave attainments that are a dead end behind.

Then there is the possibility that those were never the Buddha's words. That something got added, dropped or changed over the centuries of passing things down orally or the several thousands of years later.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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beeblebrox
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby beeblebrox » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:35 pm

Last edited by beeblebrox on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jhana4
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:40 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby chownah » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:33 pm


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Alex123
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby Alex123 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:19 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:55 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

rowyourboat
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Re: "I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted"

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:17 pm

As far as psychic powers go the Buddha forbade his monks to tell others about or make a public spectacle of themselves - as that could lead to ridicule (as would happen now). If the teaching of the dhamma was based on thee converted by Public displays of miracles, then they would approach the dhamma for the wrong reasons. It would also bring disrepute and disrespect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. I think, seeing these faults, and because those faults are very detrimental to the survival of the Buddhas dispensation, it is indeed catastrophic in nature.

This does not mean those things don't exist or arent possible. The Buddha clearly states those powers as results of intense practice (kayagatasati sutta). Those practitioners with sufficient depth of practice will know what I mean. Seeing your own past lives can be particularly useful for the path, because it motivates you to remove yourself from samsara, pronto.

Dipa Ma is known as someone who had all these psychic powers. Joseph Goldstein talks of her here:
http://dharmaseed.org/talks/audio_player/96/10100.html

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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