ghost01 wrote:The thing that doesn't measure up to me, is that the voices are mostly extraordinarily coherent, and intelligible and as much as I have looked I can't seem to 'tie' them to my own will, or train of thoughts. I can be fully engaged in thinking about something and lo-and-behold there's a voice speaking like another person in my mind. (these are not auditory hallucinations, they are thoughts).
ghost01 wrote:Also when I am going to sleep it really seems to get worse, there is just this static of what seems like random sentences, lots of people talking and random vivid images.. often times of scary faces etc. Occasionally it will persist all night long into my sleep, and I will get woken up by them constantly and be extremely agitated.
Your experience is not unusual, although it may feel like it is. And no one is going to confine you unless you are violent or suicidal. No doctor can change your worldview, but they can help with the symptoms. I know many people who suffered from anxiety, and once on proper medication, describe the anxiety dissolving like a cloud. At that point, they were able to practice the dharma. A do it yourself approach only emboldens the ego, in my mind.
ghost01 wrote:it's just a matter of willpower.
Thanks again all.
I am sorry ghosto1, but it seems you misunderstood what I meant. The effect of an episode is not judged by what others "see" and how they react to what they "see", but what happens to you. You cannot hide your episode from yourself. If you lose "control" or "awareness" of the fact that the voices are just your thoughts then YOU will suffer the episode, as a consequence of which... The unfortunate consequences of having an episode and being hospitalised because of it, are nothing in comparison to the consequences the episode will have on your mind. It will make Dharma practice impossible.ghost01 wrote:There's no risk of me having an episode though, I am very good at hiding what goes on inside my head.
Yes, well, the ego is like that, isn't it?To be honest, perhaps I was looking for someone to validate my own beliefs rather than provide a dose of needed reality...
I am not interested in seeing a psychiatrist or taking anti-psychotics, mostly because I want to solve this issue myself and be done with it for good.
Unwelcome Guets wrote:... her book Agnes' Jacket which details first person accounts of people deemed 'insane' by their society. Far from being the meaningless ramblings of crazed mind, as many mental health professionals would have people believe, she suggests that these stories contain salient criticism of the profession and its practitioners and are often deliberately suppressed because this is an unwelcome message. The excerpt of her interview ends on a positive note, detailing self-help groups such as the 'Hearing Voices Network', groups that formed spontaneously in US and UK as internet technology facilitated mutual support free of institutional supervision and control. She reports that these groups have facilitated the complete recovery of some schizophrenics whom the mental health profession had classed as hopeless cases who would need lifelong medication to control their symptoms. The show contains the first half of the 57 minute interview, though the full interview is available for download below.
This is not 100% true. Some psychiatrists actually care about treating their patients illness and some psychiatric drugs work really well to counter the symptoms of mental illness.Thrasymachus wrote:I strongly advise against seeking any professional help, your instincts are right. Mental health and other medical professionals are not there to help you. SSRIs and many other psychotropic drugs which a psychiatrist would likely prescribe are known to increase suicidal ideation. However, psychiatrists rely on Pharmaceutical companies for their education on what they prescribe, so of course they will never tell you or if they do, they will try to deprecate the risks.
Anthropologically speaking this is ture, BUT I imagine that ghost01 does not live in tribal society and the consequences of untreated psyhiatric illness in modern societies are quite differnet to those of tribal societies. PLUS if you bother watching a few documentaries on oracles you will find that the majority of them state that even though they are regarded highly in their respective societies the experiences themselves are actually a source of suffering for them. It's not easy being possesed by a god.It is important to note that many societies considered hearing voices as a gift. In most tribal societies you could have been a shaman and attained a relative position of authority.
That's excellent to hear, but have you considered that maybe ghost01 does have access not to these sorts of facilities and services? If they do have access to them then obviously it will be a good idea to try them out first.... her book Agnes' Jacket which details first person accounts of people deemed 'insane' by their society. Far from being the meaningless ramblings of crazed mind, as many mental health professionals would have people believe, she suggests that these stories contain salient criticism of the profession and its practitioners and are often deliberately suppressed because this is an unwelcome message. The excerpt of her interview ends on a positive note, detailing self-help groups such as the 'Hearing Voices Network', groups that formed spontaneously in US and UK as internet technology facilitated mutual support free of institutional supervision and control. She reports that these groups have facilitated the complete recovery of some schizophrenics whom the mental health profession had classed as hopeless cases who would need lifelong medication to control their symptoms. The show contains the first half of the 57 minute interview, though the full interview is available for download below.
ghost01 wrote:The only close spiritual adviser I have is also a voice inside my head, and is one of the reasons I was hesitant to give up talking to these voices completely, though I have chosen to do so recently.
Bruce E. Levine wrote:Alternet: Are Antidepressants a Scam? 5 Myths About How to Treat Depression
Myth 1: Antidepressants Are More Effective than Placebos
Many depressed people report that antidepressants have been effective for them, but do antidepressants work any better than a sugar pill? Researcher Irving Kirsch (professor of psychology at the University of Hull in the United Kingdom as well as professor emeritus at the University of Connecticut and author of The Emperor’s New Drugs) has been trying to answer that question for a significant part of his career.
In 2002, Kirsch and his team at the University of Connecticut examined 47 depression treatment studies that had been sponsored by drug companies on the antidepressants Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Celexa, and Serzone. Many of these studies had not been published, but all had been submitted to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), so Kirsch used the Freedom of Information Act to gain access to all the data. He discovered that in the majority of the trials, antidepressants failed to outperform sugar pill placebos.
“All antidepressants,” Kirsch reported in 2010, “including the well-known SSRIs [selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors], had no clinically significant benefit over a placebo.” While in aggregate, antidepressants slightly edge out placebos, the difference is so unremarkable that Kirsch and others describe it as “clinically negligible.”
Why are so many doctors unaware of the lack of superiority of antidepressants as compared to placebos? The answer became clear in 2008 when researcher and physician Erick Turner (currently at the Department of Psychiatry and Center for Ethics in Health Care, Oregon Health and Science University) discovered that antidepressant studies with favorable outcomes were far more likely to be published than those with unfavorable outcomes. Analyzing published and unpublished antidepressant studies registered with the FDA between 1987-2004, Turner found that 37 of 38 studies having positive results were published; however, Turner reported, “Studies viewed by the FDA as having negative or questionable results were, with 3 exceptions, either not published (22 studies) or published in a way that, in our opinion, [falsely] conveyed a positive outcome (11 studies).”
Really? So when I (as a psychologist and mediatation practitioner) give mindfulness based stress management courses so that people can have an alternative to taking drugs in order to overcome their anxiety, I am maiming people mentally? Based on my experience in the mental health field I can assure you that some conditions (and especially when the condition has reached crisis point) cannot be dealt with purely on a psychological level. Sometimes psychiatric medications are 100% necessary. Unfortunately that is the reality. That is why I am saying to ghost01 that they should not allow their condition to develop to the point of triggering an episode. At that point neither psychological support, will-power, affirmation or any other approach will help them. At that point psychiatric medication is the only treatment FOR THE SYMPTOMS (cf this post viewtopic.php?f=80&t=10595&view=unread#p134689 ). Take note, I never said that psychiatric medication is a cure for whatever is causing their distress.Thrasymachus wrote:If you fulfill the purpose of the field, you are maiming people mentally.
ghost01 wrote:Do it yourself isn't anything to do with the ego, it's just plain reality. No one can solve your problems for you.... I know how to fix my 'problem', it's just a matter of willpower.
viniketa wrote:...do not try to engage in conversation or interaction, do observe in non-reactivity; do not try to analyze or understand the content of what they relate,
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