Is the truth about Buddha in your actual consciense?

[Ervin]

Conscience is very gentle and we are all born with it. Now if we have conscience then why do we need someone teachings us good from evil.

Now if you believe that you need the teachings in order to know good from evil my question to you is: Isn't it your conscience that would recognise truth about teachings concerned with morality and ethics?

Thoughts

[Seishin]

Are you born with it? Are you sure about that? Evidently you've never raised a child...

Gassho,
Seishin

[Ervin]

I remember that when i was really little, maybe around three years old an experience where an older kid that wad showing me some pictures had his pictures taken by force by a group of other kids who came on bikes. I felt enourmos empathy towards the kid and Jo hate towards the perpetrators. I think I cried.

I was born with that. Or I chose it. By the way, how do you know that Sakyamuni Buddha taught truth? If you are not enlightened, then how do you know that Buddhist teachings are truth and that Sakyamuni Buddha was preaching accurate truth?

If te not enlightened, then you need to have besides reason alone some other ways of recognising the truth of ultimate infinite goodness there is and the only way I can term that mechanism for recognition, for feeling that truth is conscience.

Thoughts

[Seishin]

Faith.

[Radman622]

It is true that with Faith, you can choose to believe something that otherwise you have no reason to believe.

I think it is true that all people are born with a moral sense called a "conscience" which is how we perceive to cause the suffering of others is wrong, but that this moral sense begins as only a seed, and that it must be nurtured by proper instruction in order to bloom into a beautiful flower of Right View. This moral sense is the Buddha Nature, and it is how one recognizes the Dharma as being truth.

Like Ervin, I have had a strong moral and compassionate heart from the time I was very young. I do not say this to tout my own virtues, I am only remarking that I do think it was something I was born with, perhaps enlightenment that carried over from past lives. Certainly the Buddha was born more enlightened and with a stronger moral sense than his fellow man, otherwise, how could he have discovered the path to enlightenment all on his own? If it were necessary for him to be taught by an outside force, it would have been impossible for him to attain Buddhahood.

Followers of other religions have Faith as well, but they use their Faith to blind themselves to the fact that they are fooling themselves, their "Faith" is nothing more than delusions. Faith in the truth is more akin to knowing, at least in my perspective.

[Ervin]

The way I see the truth is that there is an infinite Source of everything that exists, whom people traditionally call God and Hem is( I say Hem instead of Him or Her) is best described by myself in one word as Gentleness. The Source of everything that exists is infinitely Gentle. Now conscience is very gentle. I wold like to post one of my experiences from around seven months ago:

I have copied the following from a forum with the date wich is round about when it happened

by Ervin » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:08 am

I thought I might go a bit into my last experience of God. Last time I felt strong presence/communication with God was about three to two weeks ago. It was the most beautiful experience I had in my life and at the same time the"devil/demons" where playing mind games with me it didn't bother me at all. God felt like peace, light, love, truth, gentleness, someone who wouldn't burn anyone in eternal hell. It was wonderful. It was just someone you can totally trust with everything. Just a memory of that experience is enough to make me calm, forgiving, compassionate, loving, kind, reasonable, good. It was as I could see God but I wasn't seeing things. Gods presence was felt as if he was everywhere. Thats what I felt.

Thanks

[oushi]

Now conscience is very gentle.

Try doing something against your conscience and you see how "gentle" it is.

[Radman622]

Your conscience is gentle, any guilt you feel beyond that which is useful to lead you back to the right path is only suffering in your own mind fueled by delusions.

That is a beautiful story, Ervin.

[CoreyNiles92]

"Followers of other religions have Faith as well, but they use their Faith to blind themselves to the fact that they are fooling themselves, their "Faith" is nothing more than delusions. Faith in the truth is more akin to knowing, at least in my perspective."

I believe this might need a second consideration my friend. If their faith is delusion, then so would ours be also. How can we even put faith in reality, when the very word and definition of reality were created by us. The concept we use to describe reality, defines itself, and creates an infinite loop requiring an abundance of faith that we give without thought. It is not of Buddhist nature to dismantle religions to simple descriptions such as delusional. I believe that I do not know, therefore I am human.

[KeithBC]

I do think that we are born with a conscience. It can be developed (for better or for worse) by training and experience, but it is there from day one. I can remember at least one incident when I could not have been more than 6 years old where my conscience spoke clearly to me, telling me that what someone was saying to me was wrong. (Incidentally, what the person was saying was that believers of non-Christian religions would go straight to hell.) The point was that all my training up until then would have told me that the person was right. I was going against my training, both from teachers and from my parents in rejecting that thought.

I recognize that voice now as my conscience. It certainly came from inside.

Is conscience "gentle"? It is neither gentle nor not-gentle. It is forceful and insistent.

Om mani padme hum
Keith

[seeker242]

Now if we have conscience then why do we need someone teachings us good from evil.

Because the voice of conscience is often blocked out by ignorance, greed and hate, so much so that it can't even be heard. So because you can't hear it for yourself, someone else is there to tell you what it says.

[KeithBC]

Now if we have conscience then why do we need someone teachings us good from evil.

Because the voice of conscience is often blocked out by ignorance, greed and hate, so much so that it can't even be heard. So because you can't hear it for yourself, someone else is there to tell you what it says.

[Ervin]

Conscience is very gentle. If I followed my conscience entirely I wouldn't even partake in killing plants for food. But you can't survive that way. If you want to live you must partake in atleast killing plants for food and if there was nothing else then you would have to eat animal based food.

So conscience is very gentle and it can be used against you, wich issomething you should guard against, since no mater what you might have done, while you are still a human you can go back to being good and you do that by following your conscience, but not by wallowing in guilt.

So its OK in life to be reasonable.

Thanks

[KeithBC]

Conscience is very gentle. If I followed my conscience entirely I wouldn't even partake in killing plants for food. But you can't survive that way. If you want to live you must partake in atleast killing plants for food and if there was nothing else then you would have to eat animal based food.

So conscience is very gentle and it can be used against you, wich issomething you should guard against, since no mater what you might have done, while you are still a human you can go back to being good and you do that by following your conscience, but not by wallowing in guilt.

So its OK in life to be reasonable.

Thanks

Reasonable is good.

Conscience is always firm and can sometimes be wrathful. It is strong and irrepressable. Sometimes, it might express itself in forceful words. Perhaps even in forceful actions. It always works for good, but that doesn't mean it is always "nice".

If your "gentle" can include these things, then perhaps it is.

Om mani padme hum
Keith

[zAnt]

I wouldn't use faith... faith means Blind belief In something that you are unsure of.

[CoreyNiles92]

I wouldn't use faith... faith means Blind belief In something that you are unsure of.

What would you tell me, with absolute one hundred percent certainty, that you are sure of.

[zAnt]

Easy, I could explain to you the laws of physics, I could tell you that I am typing this from my phone because of the vast amount of evidence I have behind it. The fact I can prove it with the scientific method and through countless trials with the same result can prove that I am indeed typing through my phone. I don't need faith to tell me that my phone will type. I've had enough experience, use of human sense to tell me that it will type. What you asked me is a very common thing throughout all religions. Faith is only needed if you don't know. Cause if you knew, the word wouldn't be faith, it would be know.

For example "I have faith gravity will pull me down" to "I know gravity will pull me down"

Two very different things. Now for things like...

"I have faith god will take me to heaven" and "I know god will take me to heaven" is completely ignorant, because of the fact you, nor no-one, has ever experienced heaven. You might think someone has, but thinking isn't the same as knowing.

[Dave The Seeker]

Easy, I could explain to you the laws of physics, I could tell you that I am typing this from my phone because of the vast amount of evidence I have behind it. The fact I can prove it with the scientific method and through countless trials with the same result can prove that I am indeed typing through my phone. I don't need faith to tell me that my phone will type. I've had enough experience, use of human sense to tell me that it will type.

You actually have faith that the phone will actually type, the system will send the message you typed and the other end of the system will receive it. If you're in an area of good coverage, and your phone is working properly, your faith in the success of your actions will be fruitful.
But if your phone is on the fritz or there is a problem with the system your actions will be moot.

You still are having faith that the whole system, phone, towers, receivers and such are working properly to complete your intended actions.

[zAnt]

No, I never said anything about sending anything, I said typing. And no, I do not have faith in that it will send the message. I know it will either send it or fail to send it. Although radio waves cannot be seen, there are many, many different ways to experience them and study them to prove their existence.

[Dave The Seeker]

Please reread the first part........

You have faith that the phone will type.