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Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
PeterB
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby PeterB » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:48 pm

You are quite right...Enlightenment is yet another of those terms..which served an ambilivant purpose when the west was discovering Buddha Dhamma but should have been quietly junked some time ago, along with misleading translation like "suffering" for Dukkha.

It may well be that actually Ms Clair is by her own terms " enlightened "...the question becomes whether that " enlightenment" bears any resemblance to the stated aims of Buddha Dhamma as outlined by its originator.
My bet is that it doesn't.

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby ancientbuddhism » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:01 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


Jhana4
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:41 pm


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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Reductor » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:04 pm

Boy, enlightened masters are everywhere. There is even one in my town that will meet my friend and I, if we first accept him as guru... and pay him 200 dollars.

Apparently there is a lot of overhead in being a guru.

What concerns me is how these people claim to teach buddhism while espousing dhamma which serves their own 'enlightenment conceit' rather than the vision of release taught by the buddha.

I certainly get the feeling from my own local master that he would supplant all three gems with himself. Alarming.

But what to do about it?

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:08 pm

Image




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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:09 pm


Akuma
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Akuma » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:13 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:15 pm


Jhana4
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:16 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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reflection
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby reflection » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:30 pm


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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Reductor » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:40 pm


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Viscid
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Viscid » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:12 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:29 pm


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Viscid
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Viscid » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:55 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Sherab
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Sherab » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:00 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:14 am


PeterB
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby PeterB » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:17 am

Quite so. There are also plenty of people with no self sense....it normally turns out to be pathological. Alienation with or without ecstatic affect is pretty common. Too much dope will do it.
To quote Ajahn Sumedho " beware of being so open minded that your brain falls out. "

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manas
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby manas » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:51 am

I once discovered a kind of test which I could apply to the heart, to see if my aspiration to enlightenment is genuine or not. I asked myself, Imagine for a moment that you could attain enlightenment, but that no-one would ever find out. Do you still want it? (with this strict precondition)? It was amazing to see how the heart hesitated, as if there is a kilesa there - a wanting to get known as a 'great enlightened teacher' one day, or to finally get some respect from others. This examination was quite 'enlightening' in itself, so to speak, when I found pride and conceit lurking there. (And the answer is, of course, yes, I still aspire to enlightenment, yes even if no-one ever finds out; but it's interesting how even that noble aspiration can be tainted by defilements, or 'used' by the defilements as it were, to perpetuate their own existence).

I recall somewhere, in the dhammapada I think it was, where the Buddha admonishes those who want to be known as having accomplished this or that, etc, and exhorts us to rather cultivate seclusion. And so, I am trying to take this to heart, to focus on freedom for it's own sake, and not for any other byproduct that might come along with it (fame, respect etc). I think, for example, of Bhante Gunaratana, whose meditation instructions seem to flow from direct, personal experience (he speaks about insight in such a matter of fact way, one gets the impression that he has truly realized it), and yet, I've never heard him claiming anything, he just quietly goes about the business of helping others with the practice. Maybe the truly realized are like this...and having reflected on that, maybe self-proclamations of attainment need to be approached with due circumspection.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Ben
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Ben » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:07 am

Well said, manasikara!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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