Life

Help required with personal difficulties.
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Jesse
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Life

Postby Jesse » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:30 pm

I have been having issues for a long time now, and honestly I don't know why I am posting this here except for the fact I have shared this with no-one else. In some ways I am at my wits ends, and something has to change I'm really just not sure what.

I am extraordinarily hesitant to post this because of the stigma associated with mental illness, and I have not even told any of my closest friends or family. And I would like to ask in advance for permission to have this post deleted after I have received some advice.

My problems mostly stem from the fact I have a bunch of voices in my head. Rather that I can't seem to force myself to admit they are my own thoughts and not some external entity/s. My reasons of course seem well examined to me, but I'm sure there's reasonable arguments against my logic as well.

The thing that doesn't measure up to me, is that the voices are mostly extraordinarily coherent, and intelligible and as much as I have looked I can't seem to 'tie' them to my own will, or train of thoughts. I can be fully engaged in thinking about something and lo-and-behold there's a voice speaking like another person in my mind. (these are not auditory hallucinations, they are thoughts).

Of course I have also reasoned there is no 'me', or 'them', merely thoughts and my labeling them me and other is the source of the problem, but there is a huge difference in knowing this and experiencing it.

Also when I am going to sleep it really seems to get worse, there is just this static of what seems like random sentences, lots of people talking and random vivid images.. often times of scary faces etc. Occasionally it will persist all night long into my sleep, and I will get woken up by them constantly and be extremely agitated.

I am not interested in seeing a psychiatrist or taking anti-psychotics, mostly because I want to solve this issue myself and be done with it for good.

The main issue is that at times it becomes so frustrating because I can't control it, and often can't ignore them. Some of them do taunt me and if I let it affect me it just spirals down to the point where I get so depressed and angry I can't even leave my bed. My anger has gotten so out of control over it at times I have just wanted to end it, honestly. There is no way to describe the anger/depression except to call it literal hell.

There of course have been helpful voices which have given me ways to deal with it, but often times I just can't put this advice into practice, and I know writing this how absurd it seems, obviously I should be locked in a white room with a straight jacket on, but hey that's life.

I am just looking for advice, maybe from someone who has experienced something similar, and/or some outside perspective.. It's not easy dealing with something like this alone, so.. Thanks.
“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

GarcherLancelot
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Re: Life

Postby GarcherLancelot » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:05 pm

I think you should just see counsellor(psychiatrist,psychologist etc.),no point taking the entire burden on yourself(although you did share with us).. .

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Grigoris
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Re: Life

Postby Grigoris » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:48 pm

Dear ghost01,

I would recommend that you go see a psychiatrist. The fact that you can still recognise that the voices are just your thoughts is positive, but if your condition proceeds any further you will not be able to make this distinction and then the real problems will begin. If you are "lucky" it is possible that with a mild treatment the symptoms will fade and give you time to enter some sort of "therapy" (that includes practice) to deal with the deeper issues that are giving rise to these symptoms.

This way you will avoid having an episode that may land you in a psychiatric hospital druggged to the gills for an extended period of time.

I can understand why you may have some aversion to seeking professional help but you can always "shop around" to find somebody that you feel you can trust. If you have an episode you will not be given a choice. They will just lock you up (if you are "lucky" because of you don't have health insurance you will just end up on the street without any help at all).
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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viniketa
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Re: Life

Postby viniketa » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:10 pm

. ~

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Life

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:31 pm

are "you" and the voices able to converse with each other, like an ongoing dialog?
There is a buddhist story about a guy who was haunted by a demon every night,
and he asked a master what to do about it.
the master told him to grab a handful of beans and put them in a bowl
and then when the demon appeared, to ask the demon how many beans were in the bowl.

So the guy put the beans in a bowl and went to sleep and that night when the demon appeared he asked the demon how many beans are in the bowl but the demon couldn't answer and after that never came back.

So the point is that the demon didn't know because the guy didn't know.
The demon was a manifestation of the guy's mind.
You know that these voices are a manifestation of your mind.
but the voices don't know that!!!
So how can you prove it to them?


If they talk to you and you can talk back to them, maybe you could put a bunch of pennies or beans in a jar (don't count them first) and then ask the voices to tell you how many there are, and then see what happens. Demand that they tell you the answer or else leave you alone. fair deal!

But maybe seeing a psychiatrist should be an option.
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Jesse
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Re: Life

Postby Jesse » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:00 pm

Thanks everyone for the feedback, I appreciate it. There's no risk of me having an episode though, I am very good at hiding what goes on inside my head.

I know what is normal, and I simply do not let the world see anything but that, normally.. and on days I can't manage that I do not go around people.

I do not see a point in seeing a psychiatrist because they can't do anything for me, I have all the perspective I need, but a psychiatrist can't make me choose to view reality differently, they can't make me choose happiness rather than misery, etc. I know if I want to get 'better', I'm on my own and so it is.

The only close spiritual adviser I have is also a voice inside my head, and is one of the reasons I was hesitant to give up talking to these voices completely, though I have chosen to do so recently. Engaging them in conversation only makes matters worse. Yes I know the voices are just my mind, but it's sort of like saying I know there is also no me. Knowing it and experiencing it are two separate things.

The bean thing is a funny idea, but I've tried many things just like it. "they" don't care, it's really a matter of me ignoring them, and not engaging them back, but it get's tiring and frustrating like I said earlier and that opens a whole nother' can of worms, namely depression/anger.. sort of dwelling on my own self-pity for my situation, and this get's really bad.

The thing I have realized is dwelling in self pity is far worse than the actual situation, It's just really hard sometimes to not do it.

Again, I thank everyone for their sympathies. It's appreciated. :smile:
“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

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Matt J
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Re: Life

Postby Matt J » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:03 pm

Ghost,

Your experience is not unusual, although it may feel like it is. And no one is going to confine you unless you are violent or suicidal. No doctor can change your worldview, but they can help with the symptoms. I know many people who suffered from anxiety, and once on proper medication, describe the anxiety dissolving like a cloud. At that point, they were able to practice the dharma. A do it yourself approach only emboldens the ego, in my mind.
The Great Way is not difficult
If only there is no picking or choosing
--- Xin Xin Ming


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Jesse
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Re: Life

Postby Jesse » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:22 am

“Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire” – Epictetus

ram peswani
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Re: Life

Postby ram peswani » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:37 am


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Grigoris
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Re: Life

Postby Grigoris » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:10 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Konchog1
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Re: Life

Postby Konchog1 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:21 am

Hmm sounds like OCD mixed with some Psychosis.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

Yudron
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Re: Life

Postby Yudron » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:31 am

Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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Thrasymachus
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Re: Life

Postby Thrasymachus » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:35 am

Last edited by Thrasymachus on Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Grigoris
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Re: Life

Postby Grigoris » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:45 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Thrasymachus
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Re: Life

Postby Thrasymachus » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:04 am

Last edited by Thrasymachus on Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Grigoris
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Re: Life

Postby Grigoris » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:25 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Thrasymachus
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Re: Life

Postby Thrasymachus » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:45 am

I will just say for the benefit of anyone: many people have shitty lives due to social and economic conditions, circumstances of birth, etc. I for example, have always been poor and dealing with a bad family dynamic. The mental health canon has no mechanisms to realize that people have dysfunctional families, poor paying jobs that also have an associated low social status, lack of community, no true friends, etc. Thus since it cannot factor in social conditions caused largely by capitalism, since the medical field is structured to ignore that people are sacrificed as externalities to economic growth. If things were otherwise, health professionals like psychiatrists, therapists, physicians would have to be at the forefront of fighting economic growth by primitive accumulation, capitalist maximization and other methods. The mental health field systematically teaches its victims that their lives are bad because of their personal failings manifested as a diagnosis. That is a grave crime... The system is designed, so that when you are down, if you are poor, you are mentally damaged, it is your fault. Too convenient.

In closing I want to say that this is a thread to discuss ghost01's issues surrounding hearing voices and we should not get into this big aside. I just shared what I shared, since many try to court him to seeking help through the official channels of a profession that has been discredited by many and which I personally have found over more than a decade to be of little benefit compared to talking to a stranger or friend.
Last edited by Grigoris on Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Ad hominem removed. Warning issued.

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viniketa
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Re: Life

Postby viniketa » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:44 am

. ~

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futerko
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Re: Life

Postby futerko » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:55 pm


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viniketa
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Re: Life

Postby viniketa » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:59 pm

Just to be clear, being "non-reactive" is not the same as "ignoring"...

:namaste:
. ~


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