Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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cooran
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Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby cooran » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:58 am

Hello all,

Does anyone know anything about this teacher Linda Clair, and claims of being enlightened?
http://simplemeditation.net/teacher/

With metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:09 am


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Ben
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:26 am

Hi Chris,
Let me ask you, what do you think?
Are you not deafened by the pealing of alarm bells?
Personally, I wouldn't touch "Simple Meditation" or Linda Clair with a ten-foot pole.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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cooran
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby cooran » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:41 am

Hello Tilt, Ben,

Yes, I always feel uncomfortable when someone claims enlightenment. It is just that just the group was listed on Meetups for Brisbane, is just starting up, and I was looking for a local meditation group which might meet close by.

I tend to agree with John Bullitt from ATI:

Are there any enlightened people in the world nowadays?
How can I tell who's really enlightened?


I wouldn't be a Buddhist if I didn't think enlightenment were possible. The Buddha himself observed that as long there are people practicing correctly in line with the noble eightfold path, there will continue to be enlightened beings in the world (DN 16).

Even better evidence of the reality of enlightenment lies in the "gradual" nature of the Buddha's teachings. In the suttas, the Buddha speaks again and again of the many rewards awaiting those who follow the Path, long before they reach nibbana: the happiness that comes from developing generosity; the happiness that comes from living according to principles of virtue; the happiness that comes from developing loving-kindness (metta); the happiness that comes from practicing meditation and discovering the exquisite bliss of a quiet mind; the happiness that comes from abandoning painful states of mind; and so on. These can be tasted for yourself, to varying degrees, through Dhamma practice. Once you've personally verified a few of the Buddha's teachings, it becomes ever-easier to accept the possibility that the rest of his teachings are plausible — including his extraordinary claim that enlightenment is accessible to us.

It's probably best not to spend too much time speculating on someone else's degree of enlightenment, simply because our own delusion and defilements are bound to cloud our vision and distort our assessment of others' attainments or lack thereof.

Our time is far better spent looking inwards and asking of ourselves: "Am I enlightened? Have I made an end of suffering and stress?" If the answer is negative, then we have more work to do.

Some lines of questioning regarding someone else's purity are, however, well worth pursuing — especially when deciding whether or not to accept that person as your teacher: "Does this person seem to be truly happy? Does he live by the precepts? Is her interpretation of Dhamma a valid one? Can I learn something of real value from him?" It can take a long and close association with someone before you can begin to answer these questions with any confidence (AN 4.192). But if you do find someone possessing this rare constellation of good qualities, stay with that person: he or she probably has something of lasting value to teach you.

Finally, one rule of thumb that I've found helpful: someone who goes around claiming to be enlightened (or dropping hints to that effect) probably isn't — at least not in the sense the Buddha had in mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... /bfaq.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Ben
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:46 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Aloka
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Aloka » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:49 am

Is she actually claiming to be fully enlightened or is she just getting some meditational experiences which she's getting rather carried away by ? I didn't read all the links on the website.

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cooran
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby cooran » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:58 am

Hello Aloka, all,

This is her description of enlightenment:
http://simplemeditation.net/articles/EN ... RIENCE.pdf

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Ben
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:06 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

chownah
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby chownah » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:14 am

I don't know anything about Linda Clair but I do have some views on claims of enlightenment....it means different things to different people....Buddhism does not have the copyright on the word and neither do any of the buddhist schools.....to point to a mundane meaning of enlightenment just think of the phrase "please enlighten me" which people use when asking for more information.....or how someone upon hearing an explanation of some unknown occurance will explain "how enlightening".....Almost for sure one could search and find uses of the word "enlightenment" to fill in an entire spectrum of meanings all the way from the mundane ones I"ve given to the nibanna experience of Buddhism. If you go to the link and read about her you will see that whoever is writing the text uses the term enlightenment very liberally and spreads it around freely. This kind of enlightenmet might not be the same as what the Buddha had or encourages us to pursue.
chownah

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Aloka
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Aloka » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:23 am


plwk
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby plwk » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:28 am


PeterB
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby PeterB » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:34 am

Another denizen of the growing Non Duality Zoo I suspect...people, largely westerners, like Gangaji, Tony Parsons, Adyashani, Tolle etc etc...who have some kind of Peak Experience ( which are actually quite common and natural ) and get stuck there, and then set up shop.
It is a million miles from the ruthless radicalism of the Buddha who encountered many such teachers and exposed the relative shallowness of their attainment.

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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Akuma » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:45 am


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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Dhammabodhi » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:03 am

"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka

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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Jhana4 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:47 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

PeterB
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby PeterB » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:22 pm

And one of the things which is also "golden" might be refraining from lecturing those who are gnostic about those issues.

None of which is anything to do with the topic of this particular person Linda Clair...
There are plenty of places for the confused or uncertain to explore their saddha or lack of.
:offtopic:

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:25 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

chownah
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby chownah » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:37 pm

I hadn't seen the link to her definition of enlightenment when I made my last post....now that I've read it I'm glad that there is one thing that she and I agree on...she wrote, "Enlightenment is a word that is bandied about quite a bit, and different people seem to have different definitions of it"
chownah

PeterB
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby PeterB » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:42 pm

True. But the Buddha had a very clear and consistent view of it. And Dhamma Wheel exists to promulgate HIS view.

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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Postby ancientbuddhism » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:40 pm

Enlightenment is such a poor fit to Nibbāna really. Not that anything about her claim resonates as particularly 'Buddhist' other than in the New Age, psychobabble eclectic sense.

For what its worth, it may be interesting to look at Patrick Kearney’s mention of the confusion over the term “enlightenment”, the link to the article .

“…I have never been able to find any Pâli or Sanskrit word which corresponds to the English word "enlightenment." This word was selected some time late last century by English translators as a label for the goal of Buddhist practice because of its resonance with the 18th century ideal of the Enlightenment. The European Enlightenment was a movement which idealised progress, science and reason - the "light" in "Enlightenment" refers to the light of reason. In Victorian Britain, sympathetic English scholars wanted to present Buddhism in as favourable a light as possible, and they did so by portraying the Buddha as the perfect Victorian gentleman. He was presented as rejecting the priestly mumbo-jumbo of the brahmins (who for the Victorian English corresponded to the Roman Catholic clergy) in favour of a religion of reason and morality (Almond: 70-4). The only thing that spoiled this picture was undeniable evidence in the Buddhist texts that the Buddha taught and practiced some kind of bizarre self-hypnosis or cultivation of trance states - what we today call meditation. The word "enlightenment" referred to a state of enlightened reason attained by the Buddha which, however, existed only in the imagination of Victorian scholars. Unfortunately the word has stuck, and with it the confusion.”

…not to stir the Kearney squabble again please
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)



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