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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:25 pm 
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This has bothered me slightly,that some Buddhist believe that only those who follow Buddhism can reach Nirvana.Before he became the Buddha,Siddhartha Gautama was not a Buddhist,so if he was not a Buddhist,how could he have achieved enlightenment.It just seems kind of Non-Buddhist thing to say,or even believe for that matter.What do you think?

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A person once asked me why I would want to stop rebirth. "It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want to be reborn."
I replied. "Wanting to be reborn is like wanting to stay in a jail cell, when you have the chance to go free and experience the whole wide world. Does a convict, on being freed from his shabby, constricting, little cell, suddenly say "I really want to go back to jail and be put in a cell. It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want that?"


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:29 pm 
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Buddha learned from previous Buddhas.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:30 pm 
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There is even a special term for those who are enlightened without following the teaching of a buddha and without starting a new era of teachings: pratyekabuddha.

Also, the Buddha only said that enlightenment requires following the noble eightfold path. He didn't say that people should follow him personally.

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"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:07 pm 
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Exactly! I believe one needs to follow Dharma: Noble Eitghfold Path, wich includes the understanding of the Four Noble Truths and the the 3 characteristics of impermanence. Real and final enlightenment cannot be achieved in other way. Its not being arrogant. Buddhism is not about arrogance. This is about understanding how things work.

When a Muslim, Jew, Christian, etc says that their path is the only one its not likely a Buddhist saying the same thing i think.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:51 pm 
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"When a Muslim, Jew, Christian, etc says that their path is the only one its not likely a Buddhist saying the same thing i think."
Your view is too narrow. Enlightenment is for everyone. How strong is the yearning for liberation and can you keep quiet?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:10 am 
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viewtopic.php?f=77&t=10012

:namaste:

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If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:19 pm 
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greentara wrote:
"When a Muslim, Jew, Christian, etc says that their path is the only one its not likely a Buddhist saying the same thing i think."
Your view is too narrow. Enlightenment is for everyone. How strong is the yearning for liberation and can you keep quiet?



I didnt say that they cant achieve liberation. I just think that they need to follow Dharma to achieve it, not their religions,.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Red Faced Buddha wrote:
This has bothered me slightly,that some Buddhist believe that only those who follow Buddhism can reach Nirvana.Before he became the Buddha,Siddhartha Gautama was not a Buddhist,so if he was not a Buddhist,how could he have achieved enlightenment.It just seems kind of Non-Buddhist thing to say,or even believe for that matter.What do you think?


Define "enlightenment."

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viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:22 pm 
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And Define "liberation"


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Do you think that we as Buddhists can become enlightened? Really! Do you truly feel that you will reach enlightenment? That's probably a more important question.
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Define "Buddhism"

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If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Nosta wrote:
greentara wrote:
"When a Muslim, Jew, Christian, etc says that their path is the only one its not likely a Buddhist saying the same thing i think."
Your view is too narrow. Enlightenment is for everyone. How strong is the yearning for liberation and can you keep quiet?



I didnt say that they cant achieve liberation. I just think that they need to follow Dharma to achieve it, not their religions,.


But before his liberation,Buddha was not a Buddhist.Buddha attained enlightenment by right views,meditation,and loving kindness,not by following any dogma.

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A person once asked me why I would want to stop rebirth. "It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want to be reborn."
I replied. "Wanting to be reborn is like wanting to stay in a jail cell, when you have the chance to go free and experience the whole wide world. Does a convict, on being freed from his shabby, constricting, little cell, suddenly say "I really want to go back to jail and be put in a cell. It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want that?"


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:44 am 
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Quote:
Buddha attained enlightenment by right views,meditation,and loving kindness,not by following any dogma.


Is that your plan? :thumbsup: Define Nothing.
Stick to the plan and everything will become clear. :yinyang:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:58 am 
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Anyone can become enlightened in a bazillion lifetimes.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Red Faced Buddha wrote:
Nosta wrote:
greentara wrote:
"When a Muslim, Jew, Christian, etc says that their path is the only one its not likely a Buddhist saying the same thing i think."
Your view is too narrow. Enlightenment is for everyone. How strong is the yearning for liberation and can you keep quiet?



I didnt say that they cant achieve liberation. I just think that they need to follow Dharma to achieve it, not their religions,.


But before his liberation,Buddha was not a Buddhist.Buddha attained enlightenment by right views,meditation,and loving kindness,not by following any dogma.


Good point!

Well, probably one can achieve liberation but must find Dharma first. Buddha, at some point, found Dharma. He found that there is suffering and suffering must be erased by the Noble EightFold Path. He also found, whem seeking the Truth, that the existence has 3 characteristics (suffering, impermanence, non self). So, in a certain way he found Dharma.

Other religious paths may lead to Liberation but must be in very specific conditions i suppose.

I dont see how a Christian, for instance, can achieve Liberation. Praying to a god is not enough.

Greg, answering to your question: no, i dont believe i can reach enlightenment in this life, but i hope that i can reach it in Pure Land :tongue:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:25 am 
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A rare one can become enlightened but it is not exclusively Buddhist. "If you can feel yourself one with the One that exists. The whole body becomes a mere power, a force current. Your life becomes a needle drawn to a huge mass of magnet and as you go deeper and deeper you become a mere center and not even that, for you become mere Consciousness. There are no thoughts and cares any longer. They are shattered at the threshold; it is an inundation. You are a mere straw. You are swallowed alive but it is most delightful, for you become the very thing that swallows you"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:51 am 
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Enlightment is nothing great.

All religions, all human can get enlightened by putting up an effort.
Enlightment is knowing what line or God or Truth you are meant for and have developed advancement thro various earlier
births.
If one has been worshiping Christ earlier and advanced a lot in previous births, One can come to know this and this is enlightment.

Changing a path should have some logic reason and that can be decided after enlightment.
Enlightment can be achieved by one when one reaches a thougtless stage and mind stops for a period. In this state Wisdom comes like a thunder bolt and man knows his purpose of taking the birth.
If one has not followed any God or Guru or uncle or daddy in previous birth, even knowing this is enlightment.
Basically it is knowing who "I AM".

Stages of Arhat, Arihant, Nirvan, or Buddha come when one has selected a path and achieved something

Well, this is my view.


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