Moksha

[Norden]

Hello guys,

Moksha means liberation, Hinduism also has this definition for liberation but in Buddhism means Nirvana, I guess the term of Moksha is derived from Hinduism. Heard Moksha word for the first time from one Rinpoche.
So there was a guy, he seemed to be burdened with his problem and he knelt in front of this Rinpoche, prostrate and shed tears. Seemed he had quite serious problems. This Rinpoche looked at him for a while, quiet... and then he spoke to other monks in their native language, one word in their second language understood was Moksha, he told this guy to come back tomorrow. Rinpoche was preparing for Moksha, there was a long steel approx. 30-50 Cm heated on the fire, this guy take off his shirt, Rinpoche did the chanting and short ritual, took the steel and touched the guy's back using the hot steel in 3 or 6 ( not too sure ) different spots.

Since the Moksha, month by month, year by year, this guy felt his desire over worldly things diminished gradually. He did not even ask for Nirvana. I don't know if you guys know about this Moksha particularly in Tibetan Buddhism, please share your thought. But liberation in Buddhism only possible through one's effort and practice, nothing else. How external forces could liberate, in this case bring suffering to an end?

If you know this Moksha in Tibetan Buddhism please share your thought on this, appreciate that. Thank you.

[zangskar]

hi Norden

The words sound similar, but they are different: it's MOXA, moxibustion, not moksha you witnessed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxibustion
From the description of a book: http://www.shangshungpublications.org/2 ... with-fire/

Best wishes
Lars

[heart]

Hello guys,

Moksha means liberation, Hinduism also has this definition for liberation but in Buddhism means Nirvana, I guess the term of Moksha is derived from Hinduism. Heard Moksha word for the first time from one Rinpoche.
So there was a guy, he seemed to be burdened with his problem and he knelt in front of this Rinpoche, prostrate and shed tears. Seemed he had quite serious problems. This Rinpoche looked at him for a while, quiet... and then he spoke to other monks in their native language, one word in their second language understood was Moksha, he told this guy to come back tomorrow. Rinpoche was preparing for Moksha, there was a long steel approx. 30-50 Cm heated on the fire, this guy take off his shirt, Rinpoche did the chanting and short ritual, took the steel and touched the guy's back using the hot steel in 3 or 6 ( not too sure ) different spots.

Since the Moksha, month by month, year by year, this guy felt his desire over worldly things diminished gradually. He did not even ask for Nirvana. I don't know if you guys know about this Moksha particularly in Tibetan Buddhism, please share your thought. But liberation in Buddhism only possible through one's effort and practice, nothing else. How external forces could liberate, in this case bring suffering to an end?

If you know this Moksha in Tibetan Buddhism please share your thought on this, appreciate that. Thank you.

http://www.tibetanmedicine-edu.org/inde ... oxibustion

http://www.shangshungstore.org/index.ph ... tail&p=424

As you can see it has nothing to do with the sanskrit word moksha that means liberation.

/magnus

[pemachophel]

The English word "moxa" is a corruption from the Japanese mugusa for mugwort, the herb commonly used in "moxibustion." Actually, what the Lama did should not be called moxa or moxibustion. In Chinese medicine (which is where the word moxa originally comes from), cauterization and all other applications of heat for healing purposes is called jiu. The word jiu covers all types of heat applications for medicinal use. "Moxibustion," meaning applying heat derived from burning mugwort is specifically called ai jiu (mugwort heat) in Chinese or what has come to be known in English as moxibustion.

Interesting how words move from place to place and take on new meanings and uses, often due to mistakes in understanding and usage. So now, due to some Westerners not understanding the etymology of the word moxa/moxibustion, some Tibetans are using the word for Tibetan medical cautery. It's gotta make you laugh. Shows how chaos and confusion is so easily established in this saha world.

[zangskar]

The English word "moxa" is a corruption from the Japanese mugusa for mugwort, the herb commonly used in "moxibustion." Actually, what the Lama did should not be called moxa or moxibustion. In Chinese medicine (which is where the word moxa originally comes from), cauterization and all other applications of heat for healing purposes is called jiu. The word jiu covers all types of heat applications for medicinal use. "Moxibustion," meaning applying heat derived from burning mugwort is specifically called ai jiu (mugwort heat) in Chinese or what has come to be known in English as moxibustion.

Interesting how words move from place to place and take on new meanings and uses, often due to mistakes in understanding and usage. So now, due to some Westerners not understanding the etymology of the word moxa/moxibustion, some Tibetans are using the word for Tibetan medical cautery. It's gotta make you laugh. Shows how chaos and confusion is so easily established in this saha world.

Very interesting, thanks for educating us.
Best wishes
Lars

[Norden]

Thanks guys for the thorough explanation. Sorry for the late reply.
From what you guys have been posted, this moksha has nothing to do with liberation? But what is happening with his desire of worldly things, any thought on that?
His moksha was a hot steel not mugwort. Although a pack of plant was given to him advised him too wrap it like a cigar, burn it and breathe in the smoke but not to burn the patient skin as mentioned in moxa.

If this is all about theraphy what is happening with his desire of worldly things then, any thought on that? Thanks.

[pemachophel]

Norden,

Sorry I didn't explain myself well enough for you to get what I was saying. The person who used the word "moxa" simply used the wrong English word. He should have used the word "cautery."

[heart]

Thanks guys for the thorough explanation. Sorry for the late reply.
From what you guys have been posted, this moksha has nothing to do with liberation? But what is happening with his desire of worldly things, any thought on that?
His moksha was a hot steel not mugwort. Although a pack of plant was given to him advised him too wrap it like a cigar, burn it and breathe in the smoke but not to burn the patient skin as mentioned in moxa.

If this is all about theraphy what is happening with his desire of worldly things then, any thought on that? Thanks.

He might feel liberated,that is great. The procedure certainly changed his life. But unfortunately there is no medical or other procedure to remove the suffering of samsara.

/magnus

[Norden]

It seems that he is not quite ready yet for Nirvana the diminishing of his worldly interest does not make him happy so that is why he has such question. I think the explanation about moxa is quite relevant though, although he feels quite strange with his changing interest as he has not done anything significantly different in terms of practicing. Considering Nirvana is not something that can be given despite the vast teaching of Tibetan Buddhism that is not something easy for everyone to understand it but I think in the mean time nothing more relevant than links provided by you, you just helped him from the possibility of getting depression so thank you guys.