Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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m0rl0ck
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Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:11 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:35 pm

:twisted:

:tongue:

I'm (hopefuly) not getting into this as we already discussed this to the death. But have a fruitful discussion :smile: .
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby Virgo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:35 pm

The only way to really approach and understand this matter is first of all to study Abhidhamma, because that explains all the precise points about what is said to be real both on conventional and ultimate levels, and how they should be understood. And then, if you have a lot of time to waste, after you've studied Abhidhamma read the philosopher Nagajurna for HIS views, which is what all modern day Mahayana schools are based on in one way or another (either directly or indirectly).

I don't have time to answer many questions here because people will just argue with me. You have to go out and study this. Ajahn Sujin's Concepts and Realities is a good place to start for understand the Theravadin view. I highly, highly recommend reading that.

Kevin


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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby Virgo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:39 pm

http://www.abhidhamma.org/sujin3.htm

Realities and Concepts by Ajahn Sujin Boriharnwanaket


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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby kirk5a » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:19 pm

If there is only nonlocal universal consciousness, how come you have to ask?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:57 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:00 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:01 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby Pārasamgate » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:42 pm


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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:53 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby Pārasamgate » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:13 pm


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m0rl0ck
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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:31 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby Kare » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:36 pm

Forget all preconceived notions, yanas and vadas. Just observe reality yourself.
Mettāya,
Kåre

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:38 pm


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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:34 pm


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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby PeterB » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:48 pm


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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby octathlon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:37 pm


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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:43 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:54 am

Well, as it turns out, I'll join the discussion. read this sutta and its introduction:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Since there seems to be no universal consiousness in Theravada, you can reconsider the computer experience and conclude that there is objective reality.

For those who have not acompanied the discussion between me and morlock, the computer experience is the folowing: can you see the inside of your computer (morlock, put your computer back together :P)? Then you are not perceiving it. Yet, the computer works. Therefore the inside of the computer exists independently of someone perceiving it. We can extrapolate that everything exists without a need of an observer.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:24 am



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