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Formal Refuge - Dhamma Wheel

Formal Refuge

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Have you taken formal Theravadin Refuge ?

Poll ended at Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:29 pm

Yes
13
45%
No
16
55%
 
Total votes: 29

PeterB
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Formal Refuge

Postby PeterB » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:29 pm

Have you taken formal Theravadin Refuge ?
By which I mean publicly in front of a nun, monk or preceptor.
Just yes or no will do .

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retrofuturist
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:45 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Formal Refuge

Postby Ben » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:16 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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retrofuturist
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:30 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Formal Refuge

Postby Ben » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:31 am

Really?
If its not Theravada, what is it?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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retrofuturist
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Posts: 17855
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Formal Refuge

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:34 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Formal Refuge

Postby Ben » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:38 am

ok, i didn't think it matters whether one takes refuge from an ordained member of the theravada sangha or a lay member. The process is referred to as a 'formality' by SN Goenka so - i answered in the positive.
Perhaps if Peter wishes to clarify and he can account for my vote in whichevr category is most appropriate.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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beeblebrox
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: Formal Refuge

Postby beeblebrox » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:07 am

The closest I've seen is pretty much this , with the venerable Yuttadhammo. It also has captions (which is a bonus for me... since I'm deaf). I'm glad that I had a chance to view this. Take care.

:anjali:

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Monkey Mind
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby Monkey Mind » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:27 am

And what about a certain monk who administers the refuges and precepts via the Internet? And I sent $10 to a bhikkhuni who sent me a CD of formal refuge ceremony and chant book, to use at home? Or what if the layperson administering the ceremony is a sotopana? Or what if I live in a remote area, but corresponded with a Sanghian via mail about instructions for formal ceremony?

My second preceptor was a lay woman from Nepal, who was her clan's designated temple leader. They lived in an area that did not have access to monastics, so she was the preceptor for her community. Does that count?
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710

plwk
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby plwk » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:45 am


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mikenz66
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Formal Refuge

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:21 am


PeterB
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby PeterB » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:35 am

Obviously I didnt make it clear enough...In front of a monk or nun or preceptor would count as public..even if no one else is there.

An instructor on a Goenka course would count as a Theravadin preceptor.

My apologies for being muddy.

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: Formal Refuge

Postby PeterB » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:37 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:53 am

One does not take refuge. One goes for refuge. gacchāmi I go. buddhaṃ saraṇaṃ gacchāmi I go for refuge in the Buddha.

PeterB
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby PeterB » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:59 am

You are of course correct Tilt.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:02 am


PeterB
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby PeterB » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:07 am

Yes I meant it. You are correct.

To The Buddha for Refuge I go.
To The Dhamma for Refuge I go.
To the Sangha for Refuge I go.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Formal Refuge

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:27 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Dan74
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Formal Refuge

Postby Dan74 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:42 am

My very first retreat was with a lay Theravada teacher. So I guess I have (gone for Refuge in Theravadan tradition).
_/|\_

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: Formal Refuge

Postby PeterB » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:45 am

See, its dangerous stuff Dan. :smile:


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