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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:50 pm 
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We all feel a longing for spirituality; yes even atheists.

But in the west, we are programmed to be materialists.

How to reconcile the two?

Buddhism is the closest thing to a materialist religion; it doesn't need a creator god nor a messiah, and we can turn a blind eye to the supernatural s... sorry I'm unable to say the word - the things that don't agree with materialism - such as karma and rebirth.

I dunno, to me, it's not very spiritual.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:04 pm 
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Perhaps I am reading your post wrong, so forgive me but- if one is a Buddhist how could one turn a blind eye on karma and rebirth? I don't have much time to express myself at the moment, but I don't know how you can equate Buddhism with any form of materialism. Sorry gotta go...

Troy


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:40 pm 
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Martyn, "But in the west, we are programmed to be materialists." I think Asians are just as materialistic as westerners sometimes even more so. If you've ever looked into a casino 80% are Asian; gambling is huge in the community. East or west there are only small pockets of sincere seekers.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:10 am 
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Martyn wrote:
We all feel a longing for spirituality; yes even atheists.

But in the west, we are programmed to be materialists.

How to reconcile the two?

Buddhism is the closest thing to a materialist religion; it doesn't need a creator god nor a messiah, and we can turn a blind eye to the supernatural s... sorry I'm unable to say the word - the things that don't agree with materialism - such as karma and rebirth.

I dunno, to me, it's not very spiritual.


If one "turn[s] a blind eye to ... karma and rebirth" then one doesn't have any Buddhism to speak of.

~~ Huifeng

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:15 am 
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Huifeng wrote:
If one "turn[s] a blind eye to ... karma and rebirth" then one doesn't have any Buddhism to speak of.


Just the rituals...

:namaste:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:38 am 
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I agree with the other posters I am not sure of your use of the term "materialist" and how you equate this to Buddhist philosophy.
If anything the Buddhist point of view emphasizes a rejection of the unrealistic projections or expectations that we impute upon all external phenomena.
(i.e., that happiness is achievable through experiences dependent upon external phenomena or, if you will, experience of or accumulation of material objects, wealth, etc...)
This in my opinion is a form of anti-materialism.

Shaun :namaste:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:17 am 
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I'm still waiting for Martyn to tie in the "liberals" bit.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:34 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
I'm still waiting for Martyn to tie in the "liberals" bit.
:namaste:


Yes me too, that may be a language thing . . .
I would suggest that Buddhist teachings lend themselves to extremist politics as easily as any other in practice. We have the Sri Lankans trying to instigate a 'Buddhist State', by wiping out Hinduism. The Dala Lama promoting Buddhism with the kalachakra initiations. The Zen inspired budo spirit of Japanese WW2 aggression and so on.

However we do not have to engage in such herding tactics.

I think through practice we gain insight into a more liberal outlook, a kinder, greener approach to our environment. Politics is something we can not ignore very often but the extent of our involvement can, if fortunate be minimal.

:popcorn:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Buddhist jihad? Promoted by the the Dalai Lama? You have got to be kidding. There is not a less warlike fellow in the world than the Dalai Lama.

Anyhow please refer to the ToS before making undocumented accusations at respected gurus.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Martyn wrote:
Buddhism is the closest thing to a materialist religion;


De-materialist


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:57 pm 
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This whole "Kalachakra Jihad" thing is a lot of nonsense, Lobster. the only jihad is internal, against our own ignorance.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:09 pm 
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conebeckham wrote:
This whole "Kalachakra Jihad" thing is a lot of nonsense... the only jihad is internal, against our own ignorance.


That doesn't stop paranoia from turning it into "outward" jihad, for example:

The Buddhization of America

THE SHADOW OF THE DALAI LAMA


Blame Alexander Berzin:

Quote:
A careful examination of the Buddhist texts, however, particularly the Kalachakra literature, reveals both external and internal levels of battle that could easily be called "holy wars." An unbiased study of Islam reveals the same. In both religions, leaders may exploit the external dimensions of holy war for political, economic, or personal gain, by using it to rouse their troops to battle. Historical examples regarding Islam are well known; but one must not be rosy-eyed about Buddhism and think that it has been immune to this phenomenon. Nevertheless, in both religions, the main emphasis is on the internal spiritual battle against one's own ignorance and destructive ways.

The Kalachakra presentation of the Shambhala war and the Islamic discussion of jihad show several similarities. Both Buddhist and Islamic holy wars are defensive tactics for stopping attacks by external hostile forces, and never offensive campaigns for winning converts. Both have internal spiritual levels of meaning, in which the struggle is against negative thoughts and destructive emotions. Both need to be waged based on ethical principles, not on the basis of prejudice and hatred.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... peace.html


:shrug:

:namaste:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:42 pm 
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In both kalachakra and Islamic Jihad, the jihad journey is internal, as stated. However politics makes no concessions to such niceties or truths. His Holiness the Dalai Lama, like the Queen is Head of the Anglican church, is also a head of state. So there are political machinations involved:
http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Contents.htm

However we have no need to involve ourselves in such stances. It is a bit like the Pope representing Christ or Avalokitevara on earth. When we respect on the basis of emanated authority, we can get away with anything . . . now then . . .. now then . . .

Buddhism liberal? I would suggest it can be and should ideally be a-political.

:rules: being followed? Apologies if not . . .

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:56 am 
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Careful about using the trimondi stuff to support your point lobster, there's a lot of truth in the stuff they say but a lot of lies too. Sometimes it can be a bit hard to sift the two apart.
:namaste:

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