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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:44 pm 
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I've never seen the Tenma torma (yellow/red/blue). I take it they represent the Three Jewels?
:namaste:

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:51 pm 
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I really feel like I'm talking to Vajrayana practitioners when we talk about tormas.

JKhedrup wrote:
Tsampa is the best but not always available in Western settings.

I would only recommend oatmeal for tormas that you would use for a maximum of two days or so because as it dries out it will crack. If you need to keep the torma around for awhile, you probably need to look for tsampa.

Khedrup--we put a glaze of ghee on the tormas to keep them from cracking... but mold will eventually become an issue in a hot wet climate.

We developed a technique in druptra to prepare for big events that needed hundreds of tormas. First we made torma dough ---quick oats, tor dzey, water, and corn oil in a mixer. Add a lot of salt, maybe 25% of the oat quantity, and mix in the mixer until smooth. The resultant torma will dry slowly over days and weeks from the outside in, and -- based on Christmas tree ornaments made this way by children--last for decades, and never crack. If we want to speed the process up, we put the torma in a turned off oven over night to get a good crust on it before painting. This way you can start preparing for a big ceremony months ahead of time, instead of the Tibetan technique of having a group of super-heroes staying up all night for days before the event.

Down side: Red food coloring turns brown from the salt. We use house paint for them--it's cheap to have gallons of it premixed to the lamas color preferences on hand. It's pretty much like acrylic paint, but far cheaper. These tormas have lasted for over a year on the shrine.... could have gone longer, but the lamas may want to make new ones at some point. We're still brain-storming ideas for less toxic paints for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:52 pm 
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No, Tenma Chu Nyi--the 12 Tenma sisters? Offered, usually, at or near the end of a Tsok?

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:53 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
I've never seen the Tenma torma (yellow/red/blue). I take it they represent the Three Jewels?
:namaste:


In the Dudjom Tradition we have three tenma tormas too, white black and yellow, and they represent three classes of tenma (Mountain protector goddesses).

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:54 pm 
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JKhedrup wrote:
Dear Cone,
Are the main figures Lama Marpa, Je Milarepa and Je Gampopa? And last one Karmapa Karma Pakshi?


Marpa, Mila, ChoJe Gampopa, and DuSum Khyenpa.

In larger monasteries, or at Bodhgaya, they'll also do Tilo and Naro....

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:57 pm 
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Wang-Nga, or Wangpo Metok, the flower of the five senses....

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:57 pm 
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JKhedrup wrote:
Wow! The Kamtsang/Shangpa deity tormas are beautiful.

This is the deity torma for one of the main Gelug yidams. Often made for self-initiations.

Wow! Who was the gyen artist? Imported monk or local?

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:59 pm 
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This is a pretty fancy Mentor, or "Medicine torma"-flanked by Dudtsi and Rakta....

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:09 pm 
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I will try coating the oatmeal with ghee next time!

If you are asking about the Gelug deity torma, a group of monks at Sera Jey made them for my retreat. I mastered the shape of the tormas but not the gyen- that is difficult.

If you are asking COne I also want to know! Those are very complex and beautiful tormas! They are as nice as the ones I saw at the Kagyu Monlam in Bodh Gaya.

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:17 pm 
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If you're asking me, the two chuppens were guests from India...Lama Pema Choda (Lama Tenzin) from Palpung Sherab Ling, and Lama Osel Nyingpo (Lama Karzong), from Rumtek--they were our Chuppens and our torma makers for the San Francisco Kagyu Monlam. Lama Tenzin also made some tormas for my shrine--the Tara, Phagmo, Shelze and some others--they put the ones I've made to shame!

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:25 pm 
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These are the peaceful and wrathful Shelzes from Kamtsang Tsurphu tradition, with a bunch of Mahakala and protector tormas behind..

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:34 pm 
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This is a more elaborate Zabtik Drolma torma.

Here's a somewhat elaborate Mahakala Chagdrupa...
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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:36 pm 
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conebeckham wrote:
If you're asking me, the two chuppens were guests from India...Lama Pema Choda (Lama Tenzin) from Palpung Sherab Ling, and Lama Osel Nyingpo (Lama Karzong), from Rumtek--they were our Chuppens and our torma makers for the San Francisco Kagyu Monlam. Lama Tenzin also made some tormas for my shrine--the Tara, Phagmo, Shelze and some others--they put the ones I've made to shame!


Did he do the tormas for the RInchen Terdzod wangs at Orgyen Dorje Den, too? I wasn't there, but a friend took picks of the tormas for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Nope, the tormas at ODD were made, I think, by a Chuppen travelling with Yangthang Tulku Rinpoche, and with help from ODD students. I was there for one day--and there were a LOT of tormas, for sure!
I understand they made the tormas daily, for the next day's empowerments.

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:41 pm 
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I'd love to see those pics of the tormas, Yudron, if you wouldn't mind posting them here!
I love tormas...as you all can probably tell. :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:50 pm 
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conebeckham wrote:
Image

This is a pretty fancy Mentor, or "Medicine torma"-flanked by Dudtsi and Rakta....


Cone--we don't do the men tor in the Dudjom Tersar as far as I have ever seen. The men and rakta are on opposite ends of the shrine.

My Lama learned from HH Dudjom Rinpoche and his ritual master and right hand man Kusho Gyurme. Elaborate gyen were not a part of the Dudjom Tradition, strictly speaking, but artists can't control themselves, so elaborations get added in... because they are pretty. Also, centers, like the Chagdud centers, mix traditions. Even during Khyabje Dudjom RInpoche's lifetime things varied, and a Bhutanese style of torma ended up in the tor pe (torma illustrations) in the Dudjom Sungbum.

I hate to put pics of our tormas made by injie artists, because they don't come close to the Asian monk-artists when it comes to bling. Maybe there is something to this celibacy thing! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Torma depicting Maitreya and I believe Amitabha according to the Gyuto Tantric College tradition of Gelug.


Attachments:
5_torma_7_jpg-15028.jpg
5_torma_7_jpg-15028.jpg [ 87.24 KiB | Viewed 1274 times ]

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I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Here are some of our Injie-made tormas:

(Cone, if I find the CD with the great RInchen Terdzod tormas, I'll post some)



Attachment:
File comment: Vajrakilaya Kangtors -- we made these special kang tors --as far as we know -- the first time in the U.S. I think they are not quite done in these pics.
VK Kangtors.jpg
VK Kangtors.jpg [ 44.22 KiB | Viewed 1288 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: This was the 2011 Zorchen for Gutor. The top ornament was added later.
Zorchen Gutor 2011.jpg
Zorchen Gutor 2011.jpg [ 60.16 KiB | Viewed 1296 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Thanks for the pics. Beautiful! :namaste:

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 Post subject: Re: Torma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Attachment:
File comment: Big Chime' Sogthig main torma for Dzongsar Khyentse Wangs 2012
Chime Srogthig med.jpg
Chime Srogthig med.jpg [ 65.99 KiB | Viewed 1286 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: A gotram--the chevron shaped top ornament for tormas--in the process of being made. It is grueling and beyond my artistic capacity.
Gotram in Process med.jpg
Gotram in Process med.jpg [ 74.18 KiB | Viewed 1282 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Larger than usual Throma Protectors for Dzongsar Khyentse Wangs.
Troma Protectors, medium.jpg
Troma Protectors, medium.jpg [ 52.78 KiB | Viewed 1306 times ]

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