Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
We all feel a longing for spirituality; yes even atheists.
But in the west, we are programmed to be materialists.
How to reconcile the two?
Buddhism is the closest thing to a materialist religion; it doesn't need a creator god nor a messiah, and we can turn a blind eye to the supernatural s... sorry I'm unable to say the word - the things that don't agree with materialism - such as karma and rebirth.
I dunno, to me, it's not very spiritual.
But in the west, we are programmed to be materialists.
How to reconcile the two?
Buddhism is the closest thing to a materialist religion; it doesn't need a creator god nor a messiah, and we can turn a blind eye to the supernatural s... sorry I'm unable to say the word - the things that don't agree with materialism - such as karma and rebirth.
I dunno, to me, it's not very spiritual.
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Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
Perhaps I am reading your post wrong, so forgive me but- if one is a Buddhist how could one turn a blind eye on karma and rebirth? I don't have much time to express myself at the moment, but I don't know how you can equate Buddhism with any form of materialism. Sorry gotta go...
Troy
Troy
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
Martyn, "But in the west, we are programmed to be materialists." I think Asians are just as materialistic as westerners sometimes even more so. If you've ever looked into a casino 80% are Asian; gambling is huge in the community. East or west there are only small pockets of sincere seekers.
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
If one "turn[s] a blind eye to ... karma and rebirth" then one doesn't have any Buddhism to speak of.Martyn wrote:We all feel a longing for spirituality; yes even atheists.
But in the west, we are programmed to be materialists.
How to reconcile the two?
Buddhism is the closest thing to a materialist religion; it doesn't need a creator god nor a messiah, and we can turn a blind eye to the supernatural s... sorry I'm unable to say the word - the things that don't agree with materialism - such as karma and rebirth.
I dunno, to me, it's not very spiritual.
~~ Huifeng
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
Just the rituals...Huifeng wrote:If one "turn[s] a blind eye to ... karma and rebirth" then one doesn't have any Buddhism to speak of.
If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
I agree with the other posters I am not sure of your use of the term "materialist" and how you equate this to Buddhist philosophy.
If anything the Buddhist point of view emphasizes a rejection of the unrealistic projections or expectations that we impute upon all external phenomena.
(i.e., that happiness is achievable through experiences dependent upon external phenomena or, if you will, experience of or accumulation of material objects, wealth, etc...)
This in my opinion is a form of anti-materialism.
Shaun
If anything the Buddhist point of view emphasizes a rejection of the unrealistic projections or expectations that we impute upon all external phenomena.
(i.e., that happiness is achievable through experiences dependent upon external phenomena or, if you will, experience of or accumulation of material objects, wealth, etc...)
This in my opinion is a form of anti-materialism.
Shaun
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
I'm still waiting for Martyn to tie in the "liberals" bit.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
Yes me too, that may be a language thing . . .gregkavarnos wrote:I'm still waiting for Martyn to tie in the "liberals" bit.
I would suggest that Buddhist teachings lend themselves to extremist politics as easily as any other in practice. We have the Sri Lankans trying to instigate a 'Buddhist State', by wiping out Hinduism. The Dala Lama promoting Buddhism with the kalachakra initiations. The Zen inspired budo spirit of Japanese WW2 aggression and so on.
However we do not have to engage in such herding tactics.
I think through practice we gain insight into a more liberal outlook, a kinder, greener approach to our environment. Politics is something we can not ignore very often but the extent of our involvement can, if fortunate be minimal.
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
Buddhist jihad? Promoted by the the Dalai Lama? You have got to be kidding. There is not a less warlike fellow in the world than the Dalai Lama.
Anyhow please refer to the ToS before making undocumented accusations at respected gurus.
Anyhow please refer to the ToS before making undocumented accusations at respected gurus.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
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Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
De-materialistMartyn wrote:Buddhism is the closest thing to a materialist religion;
- conebeckham
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Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
This whole "Kalachakra Jihad" thing is a lot of nonsense, Lobster. the only jihad is internal, against our own ignorance.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
That doesn't stop paranoia from turning it into "outward" jihad, for example:conebeckham wrote:This whole "Kalachakra Jihad" thing is a lot of nonsense... the only jihad is internal, against our own ignorance.
The Buddhization of America
THE SHADOW OF THE DALAI LAMA
Blame Alexander Berzin:
A careful examination of the Buddhist texts, however, particularly the Kalachakra literature, reveals both external and internal levels of battle that could easily be called "holy wars." An unbiased study of Islam reveals the same. In both religions, leaders may exploit the external dimensions of holy war for political, economic, or personal gain, by using it to rouse their troops to battle. Historical examples regarding Islam are well known; but one must not be rosy-eyed about Buddhism and think that it has been immune to this phenomenon. Nevertheless, in both religions, the main emphasis is on the internal spiritual battle against one's own ignorance and destructive ways.
The Kalachakra presentation of the Shambhala war and the Islamic discussion of jihad show several similarities. Both Buddhist and Islamic holy wars are defensive tactics for stopping attacks by external hostile forces, and never offensive campaigns for winning converts. Both have internal spiritual levels of meaning, in which the struggle is against negative thoughts and destructive emotions. Both need to be waged based on ethical principles, not on the basis of prejudice and hatred.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... peace.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If they can sever like and dislike, along with greed, anger, and delusion, regardless of their difference in nature, they will all accomplish the Buddha Path.. ~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
In both kalachakra and Islamic Jihad, the jihad journey is internal, as stated. However politics makes no concessions to such niceties or truths. His Holiness the Dalai Lama, like the Queen is Head of the Anglican church, is also a head of state. So there are political machinations involved:
http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Contents.htm
However we have no need to involve ourselves in such stances. It is a bit like the Pope representing Christ or Avalokitevara on earth. When we respect on the basis of emanated authority, we can get away with anything . . . now then . . .. now then . . .
Buddhism liberal? I would suggest it can be and should ideally be a-political.
being followed? Apologies if not . . .
http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Contents.htm
However we have no need to involve ourselves in such stances. It is a bit like the Pope representing Christ or Avalokitevara on earth. When we respect on the basis of emanated authority, we can get away with anything . . . now then . . .. now then . . .
Buddhism liberal? I would suggest it can be and should ideally be a-political.
being followed? Apologies if not . . .
Re: Buddhism - a religion for liberals.
Careful about using the trimondi stuff to support your point lobster, there's a lot of truth in the stuff they say but a lot of lies too. Sometimes it can be a bit hard to sift the two apart.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde