Dealing with purified karma

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Dealing with purified karma

Postby Konchog1 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:20 pm

I was driving while meditating on illusion-like emptiness and after about an hour I run over a T.V. dealing $600 of damage to my car and stranding me in Nowheresville for a night.

So my question is, when karma is purified, how bad can it get? Life threatening? Problems that last several years?

And second, how can I minimize and protect myself against purified karma? Because I haven't meditated since yesterday because I'm scared my roof will collapse or something (I'm only half-joking).

Thanks.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
Konchog1
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Anders » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:39 pm

I am not sure what you mean by "purified karma."

And at any rate, I think it might be a mistake to correlate your meditation with the fruition of those karmic effects. Karma isn't linear.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
User avatar
Anders
 
Posts: 728
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Konchog1 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:57 pm

Anders wrote:I am not sure what you mean by "purified karma."

And at any rate, I think it might be a mistake to correlate your meditation with the fruition of those karmic effects. Karma isn't linear.
Well, Emptiness causes karma (although greatly weakened) to arise right? That's what I meant by purified karma.

I understand it could be a coincidence but I've been working with Emptiness this whole week and this whole week has been full of minor accidents. This is the only major one.

Well coincidence or no, my questions still stand. Your post awhile back on love meditation directed towards oneself was very helpful. I would be pleased to read any further response of yours.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
Konchog1
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby lobster » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:43 am

:tantrum:

You are in my puja practice today.
Shit happens. Be grateful. Practice. You will hopefully recognise that ripening karma is speeded development. You lucky sausage. :thumbsup:

Everything is fine. :yinyang:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Konchog1 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:55 am

lobster wrote::tantrum:

You are in my puja practice today.
Shit happens. Be grateful. Practice. You will hopefully recognise that ripening karma is speeded development. You lucky sausage. :thumbsup:

Everything is fine. :yinyang:
Thank you very much. If I can help you in the future, don't hesitate to ask.

Yes, but I fear suffering :tongue: A usual feeling.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
Konchog1
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Terma » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:57 am

Konchog1 wrote:
I understand it could be a coincidence but I've been working with Emptiness this whole week and this whole week has been full of minor accidents. This is the only major one.



Perhaps in light of your "working with emptiness" for the last little while, these kinds of incidents are gentle reminders that the relative truth still exists in mundane life. :shrug:

Terma
Terma
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:07 am

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby deff » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:03 am

i think the problem in this case might be meditating while driving :rolling:

that said, i have heard karma ripens quicker when one is practicing, and that seems to correlate with my experience. if that's really the case, then i guess the best we can do is be grateful that its ripening while we're aware of ways to reduce suffering, and ripening at a lesser intensity than it would in the future.
deff
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:23 pm

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Konchog1 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:12 am

Terma wrote:
Konchog1 wrote:
I understand it could be a coincidence but I've been working with Emptiness this whole week and this whole week has been full of minor accidents. This is the only major one.



Perhaps in light of your "working with emptiness" for the last little while, these kinds of incidents are gentle reminders that the relative truth still exists in mundane life. :shrug:

Terma
An important reminder to be sure.

deff wrote:i think the problem in this case might be meditating while driving :rolling:

that said, i have heard karma ripens quicker when one is practicing, and that seems to correlate with my experience. if that's really the case, then i guess the best we can do is be grateful that its ripening while we're aware of ways to reduce suffering, and ripening at a lesser intensity than it would in the future.
True.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
Konchog1
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby heart » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:01 am

Konchog1 wrote:I was driving while meditating on illusion-like emptiness and after about an hour I run over a T.V. dealing $600 of damage to my car and stranding me in Nowheresville for a night.

So my question is, when karma is purified, how bad can it get? Life threatening? Problems that last several years?

And second, how can I minimize and protect myself against purified karma? Because I haven't meditated since yesterday because I'm scared my roof will collapse or something (I'm only half-joking).

Thanks.


The Three Principal Aspects of the Path
by Je Tsong Kha pa

I will explain as well as I can
The essential meaning of all the Conqueror's scriptures,
The path praised by the excellent Conqueror children,
The port for the fortunate wishing liberation.

Whoever are not attached to the pleasures of mundane existence,
Whoever strive in order to make leisure and fortune worthwhile,
Whoever are inclined to the path pleasing the Conqueror Buddha,
Those fortunate ones should listen with a clear mind.

Without a complete thought definitely to leave cyclic existence
There is no way to stop seeking pleasurable effects in the ocean of existence.
Also, craving cyclic existence thoroughly binds the embodied.
Therefore, in the beginning determination to leave cyclic existence should be sought.

Leisure and fortune are difficult to find
And life has no duration.
Through familiarity with this,
Emphasis on the appearances of this life is reversed.

If you think again and again
About deeds and their inevitable effects
And the sufferings of cyclic existence,
The emphasis on the appearances
Of future lives will be reversed.

If, having meditated thus, you do not generate admiration
Even for an instant for the prosperity of cyclic existence,
And if an attitude seeking liberation arises day and night,
Then the thought definitely to leave cyclic existence has been generated.

Also, if this thought definitely to leave cyclic existence
Is not conjoined with generation of a complete aspiration to highest enlightenment,
It does not become a cause of the marvellous bliss of unsurpassed enlightenment.
Thus, the intelligent should generate the supreme altruistic intention to become enlightened.

All ordinary beings are carried by the continuum of the four powerful currents,
Are tied with the tight bonds of actions difficult to oppose,
Have entered into the iron cage of apprehending self (inherent existence),
Are completely beclouded with the thick darkness of ignorance,

Are born into cyclic existence limitlessly, and in their births
Are tortured ceaselessly by the three sufferings.
Thinking thus of the condition of mothers who have come to such a state,
Generate the supreme altruistic intention to become enlightened.

If you do not have the wisdom realising the way things are,
Even though you have developed the thought definitely to leave cyclic existence
And the altruistic intention, the root of cyclic existence cannot be cut.
Therefore work at the means of realising dependent-arising.

Whoever, seeing the cause and effect of all phenomena
Of cyclic existence and nirvana infallible,
Thoroughly destroys the mode of misapprehension of those objects [as inherently existent]
Has entered on a path that is pleasing to Buddha.

As long as the two, realisation of appearances -
the infallibility of dependent-arising - and the realisation of emptiness -
The non-assertion [of inherent existence] -
Seem to be separate, there is still no realisation
Of the thought of Shakyamuni Buddha.


When [the two realisations exist] simultaneously without alternation
And when from only seeing dependent-arising as infallible,
Definite knowledge entirely destroys the mode of apprehension
[of the conception of inherent existence],
then the analysis of the view [of reality] is complete.

Further, the extreme of [inherent] existence is excluded
[by knowledge of the nature] of appearances
[existing only as nominal designations],
And the extreme of [total] non-existence is excluded
[by knowledge of the nature] of emptiness
[as the complete absence of inherent existence and not the absence of nominal existence].

If within emptiness the appearance of cause and effect is known
You will not be captivated by extreme views.
When you have realised thus just as they are
The essentials of the three principal aspects of the path,
Resort to solitude and generate the power of effort.
Accomplish quickly your final aim, my child.

[extracted from Kindness Clarity and Insight, Dalai Lama XIV, 1981, Snow Lion, USA; translated by Jeffrey Hopkins, University of Virginia.]

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
User avatar
heart
 
Posts: 3091
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Konchog1 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:18 am

I don't understand. What are you saying?
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
Konchog1
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby dzoki » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:43 am

I think Heart wanted to hint to you that as long as we live in a world of dualism, with our artificial view of emptiness, there is no escaping from karma. If you truly meditate on emptiness, how can you be scared of karma and it´s manifestations? The van is just an empty illusion, so is the 600 dollar damage. In true view of emptiness there is nothing to fear, all is just display of our own nature, bad, good, nice and disgusting, there is nothing to reject and nothing to hold on. Karma will still come to ripen one way or another, but if we make a drama of it, we accumulate more karma. The way to exhaust the karma is to just let go of this merry-go-round of acceptance and rejection, fear and hope, including fear of ripening of bad karma and hope for the arisal of positive circumstances.
dzoki
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby heart » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:46 am

Yes, and emptiness shouldn't make you less aware because then there obviously is a separation.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
User avatar
heart
 
Posts: 3091
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Pero » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:59 am

Konchog1 wrote:I was driving while meditating on illusion-like emptiness and after about an hour I run over a T.V. dealing $600 of damage to my car and stranding me in Nowheresville for a night.

Tall viking? Television? Terrible viper? :shrug:
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
Pero
 
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby futerko » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:03 am

Pero wrote:
Konchog1 wrote:I was driving while meditating on illusion-like emptiness and after about an hour I run over a T.V. dealing $600 of damage to my car and stranding me in Nowheresville for a night.

Tall viking? Television? Terrible viper? :shrug:


Transvestite? :thinking:
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
User avatar
futerko
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Pero » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:10 am

futerko wrote:
Pero wrote:
Konchog1 wrote:I was driving while meditating on illusion-like emptiness and after about an hour I run over a T.V. dealing $600 of damage to my car and stranding me in Nowheresville for a night.

Tall viking? Television? Terrible viper? :shrug:


Transvestite? :thinking:

LOL!
Thin victim? Ticked-off velociraptor? Tasty veal?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
Pero
 
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:32 am

Konchog1 wrote:And second, how can I minimize and protect myself against purified karma? Because I haven't meditated since yesterday because I'm scared my roof will collapse or something (I'm only half-joking).
21 Praises to Tara. If karma is to ripen quickly, then may it at least ripen without producing major obstacles!
:namaste:
PS This was a reccomendation by one of my teachers when similar stuff was happening to me.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9514
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby lobster » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:06 pm

Yes, but I fear suffering A usual feeling


Indeed.
I did Chenrezig practice for you. That should be good.
(if only for me) :twothumbsup:

However I would like to have as much of your fear as you can send my way.
I have hungry ghosts and hell dwellers who rely on me . . . :thanks:

OM MANI PEMI HUNG HRI
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby kirtu » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:42 pm

Konchog1 wrote:Well, Emptiness causes karma (although greatly weakened) to arise right? That's what I meant by purified karma.


Karma can be purified by meditating on emptiness but in TB primarily by confession, repentance, a resolution to change and a dedication to not commit these actions again relying on the Buddhas and then meditating on emptiness. This is the method of Vajrasattva purification and other purification practices like the 35 Buddhas Purification.

Otherwise we experience the ripening of karma and it in fact strengthens as time goes on.

Karma can in fact go on for years (lifetimes). We all have a vast reservoir of negative karma. Even Shakyamuni Buddha had traces of karma (this point is denied in TB in general).


I understand it could be a coincidence but I've been working with Emptiness this whole week and this whole week has been full of minor accidents. This is the only major one.


So your karma is getting purified by ripening in minor ways.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4422
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby Konchog1 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:39 pm

dzoki wrote:I think Heart wanted to hint to you that as long as we live in a world of dualism, with our artificial view of emptiness, there is no escaping from karma. If you truly meditate on emptiness, how can you be scared of karma and it´s manifestations? The van is just an empty illusion, so is the 600 dollar damage. In true view of emptiness there is nothing to fear, all is just display of our own nature, bad, good, nice and disgusting, there is nothing to reject and nothing to hold on. Karma will still come to ripen one way or another, but if we make a drama of it, we accumulate more karma. The way to exhaust the karma is to just let go of this merry-go-round of acceptance and rejection, fear and hope, including fear of ripening of bad karma and hope for the arisal of positive circumstances.
Thank you both. This very helpful, I'll keep it in mind.

Thank you lobster. And you as well Greg, I'll start reciting it.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
Konchog1
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Dealing with purified karma

Postby asunthatneversets » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:20 am

deff wrote:i think the problem in this case might be meditating while driving :rolling:


I meditate while driving whenever possible... On Fridays I drive for 7-8 hours and meditate almost the whole time. Only had once or twice where some really strange nyams started to happen and I had to cut the meditation off, which is unfortunate because it would've been interesting to have those play out, but for fear of crashing I couldn't.
asunthatneversets
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Next

Return to Tibetan Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dharmagoat, Yahoo [Bot], zerwe and 11 guests

>