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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:09 pm 
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What's wrong with hippies?

Personally, i think thats the way to go.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:43 pm 
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Anistar wrote:
What's wrong with hippies?

Personally, i think thats the way to go.


:smile:

If the avatar didn't give it away already, Keith is a self-confessed unrepentant hippie himself. I wager he is voicing his concern as someone on the inside of the culture.

I am in two minds about it, probably because there is no singular answer to the issue and it depends on circumstance.

On the one hand, I wish to encourage the cultivation of all good qualities (this is at heart the project of Buddhism I feel, from the precepts all the way to Buddhahood) and I am quite happy to don the "all the same" cap insofar as other religions cultivate good qualities and this is what truly matters moreso than religious affiliation.

On the other hand, I am also keenly aware that Buddhism is a receptacle for some very rare and very precious qualities, mostly in the wisdom department, that are hard to find elsewhere and I don't wish to see these treasures diluted in the name of all-the-same-ism.

And likewise, I don't want to kid people either - if they are looking for something that Buddhism simply isn't much interested in, I don't wish to have people lead on false premises. Though of course there are different degrees of skilfulness in tackling the desires and aspirations of others. At heart, Buddhism simply wants to end all suffering and that is a wish that harmonises well with pretty much everyone. OTOH, they have may specific ideas and wishes about the how of it that are simply too firmly set for Buddhism to be able to meet their wishes.

Sometimes, making distinctions is important in order to demonstrate to people what Buddhism actually has to offer. Making such distinctions comes with its own set of pitfalls and it is our responsibility to discern when they are appropriate and when they are not and not to be too set in our distinctions.

I have little desire to correct people simply in the name of setting the record straight or making sure the world has a correct view (unless I am having a bad day maybe). At the same time, we are servants of truth too.

I've always taken note of what the Chan master Dahui said: "I have always taken a great vow that I would rather burn in hell for all eternity than to portray Zen as human emotion." Upaya isn't a carte blanche for bullshit. I think the well-intentioned heart knows the balance between skilful means and BS. That and our ability to discern the kind of people we are talking to and how we can best serve their aspirations with our own actions.

_________________
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:25 pm 
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As an anecdote for those among us who aren't so inclined to compromise fact for being kind, here's a bit from everyone's favourite Mahayanika, Nagarjuna, on why the Buddha's compassion and kindness trumps all his other qualities, including his wisdom, that I feel is quite salient to the topic:

In the Mahaprajnaparamita Upadesha, Nagarjuna wrote:

Question. - All that resides in the mind of the Buddha is great; why do you say that only his loving kindness and compassion are great?

Answer. – All the qualities belonging to the Buddha are necessarily great.

Question. – If that is so, why do you say only that his loving-kindness and compassion are great?

Answer. – The loving-kindness and compassion are the root of the enlightenment of the Buddhas. Why is that?

The bodhisattva sees beings tormented by all the sufferings: suffering of birth, old age, sickness and death, bodily suffering, and mental suffering,suffering in this life and in the next life. Feeling great loving-kindness and great compassion, he comes to save beings from these sufferings, and subsequently he forms the resolution of seeking anuttarā samyaksaṃbodhi.

By the power of his great loving-kindness and great compassion, in the course of saṃsāra in innumerable incalculable lifetimes, his courage never sinks. By the power of his great loving-kindness and his great compassion and although he could have attained nirvāṇa long ago, he does not give the evidence of it.

This is why, among all the attributes of the Buddha, loving-kindness and compassion are great. If he did not have this great loving-kindness and this great compassion, he would enter nirvāṇa too soon.

Next, when he attains enlightenment, he realizes innumerable very profound concentrations, trances, absorptions and liberations. Experiencing this pure happiness, he abandons it and does not keep it. He goes into the villages and the towns and preaches the Dharma with all kinds of avadānas and nidānas.

He changes his form and guides beings by an infinity of vocal sounds; he endures curses, injuries, criticisms and slander on the part of beings and goes so far as to become a female musician: all that thanks to his great lovingkindness and great compassion.

...

Question. – There are yet other qualities in the Buddha, such as concentration etc., and people do not know them, do not describe them as great. But the Buddha’s wisdom (prajñā), his preaching of the Dharma, etc., make beings find the Path; why are they not called great?

Answer. – Nobody fully knows the power of the Buddha’s wisdom but, in his great loving-kindness and great compassion, the Buddha, from lifetime to lifetime, sacrifices his life and abandons the bliss of the concentrations in order to save beings and this everyone knows. The Buddha’s wisdom is cognizable by induction, it cannot be cognized directly. But his loving-kindness and compassion are visible to the eye and audible to the ear; they are cognizable, for the Buddha has uttered his lion’s roar several times.

Furthermore, the Buddha’s wisdom is subtle and wonderful and if the bodhisattvas and Śāriputra do not know it, what can be said of other people? Lovingkindness and compassion are visible and audible and people can believe them and accept them. The wisdom of the Buddha is so subtle that it cannot be probed.

Furthermore, great loving-kindness and great compassion are loved by everyone: they are like a delicious medicine that people like to swallow. Wisdom is like an unpleasant medicine that many do not like at all. But because they like loving-kindness and compassion so much, they have described them as great.

Furthermore, there are hardly any beings already enlightened who are able to believe and accept the Buddha’s wisdom. In contrast, great loving-kindness and great compassion are of such a different kind that everybody can believe them and accept them. As they have seen a picture of them or heard the voice, they can believe and accept them and, since they have derived much benefit from them, they call them great loving-kindness and great compassion.

Furthermore, great wisdom has as its nature the relinquishment, the rejection of dharmas; great loving-kindness and great compassion have as their nature pity for and service to beings. This pity and service are loved by all beings; that is why they call them great loving-kindness and great compassion of the Buddha.

_________________
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:27 pm 
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a somewhat humorous take on the subject :)

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The substance of the Absolute is inwardly like wood or stone, in that it is motionless, and outwardly like the void, in that it is without bounds or obstructions. It is neither subjective nor objective, has no specific location, is formless, and cannot vanish. ~Huang Po


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:28 am 
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I think if we examine the very basic concepts of the various religions, we will find that they don't really reconcile with the Buddhist philosophical system.

I don't think it is up to me to convince others of that point though. If they seem genuinely interested, then perhaps. In general I think that those who have conviction in their beliefs will defend it vigorously. At this point I don't see any benefit to addressing the issue with others.

But then again from the perspective of a bodhisattva, if I keep practicing, then one day I may be in a much better position to do so. :tongue:

In all seriousness, most of us have still not cultivated the kind of wisdom to convince others, so best to leave it up to the masters to do so for now.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:36 am 
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thanks zenkarma
Adyashanti is the shoe in the video :yinyang:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyashanti

I released an open source general purpose deity, many years back, in case anyone needs one
http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/Cecil :popcorn:

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YinYana Buddhism


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:10 am 
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In the Mahaprajnaparamita Upadesha, Nagarjuna wrote:
Question. – There are yet other qualities in the Buddha, such as concentration etc., and people do not know them, do not describe them as great. But the Buddha’s wisdom (prajñā), his preaching of the Dharma, etc., make beings find the Path; why are they not called great?

Answer. – Nobody fully knows the power of the Buddha’s wisdom but, in his great loving-kindness and great compassion, the Buddha, from lifetime to lifetime, sacrifices his life and abandons the bliss of the concentrations in order to save beings and this everyone knows. The Buddha’s wisdom is cognizable by induction, it cannot be cognized directly. But his loving-kindness and compassion are visible to the eye and audible to the ear; they are cognizable, for the Buddha has uttered his lion’s roar several times.

Furthermore, the Buddha’s wisdom is subtle and wonderful and if the bodhisattvas and Śāriputra do not know it, what can be said of other people? Lovingkindness and compassion are visible and audible and people can believe them and accept them. The wisdom of the Buddha is so subtle that it cannot be probed.

Furthermore, great loving-kindness and great compassion are loved by everyone: they are like a delicious medicine that people like to swallow. Wisdom is like an unpleasant medicine that many do not like at all. But because they like loving-kindness and compassion so much, they have described them as great.

Furthermore, there are hardly any beings already enlightened who are able to believe and accept the Buddha’s wisdom. In contrast, great loving-kindness and great compassion are of such a different kind that everybody can believe them and accept them. As they have seen a picture of them or heard the voice, they can believe and accept them and, since they have derived much benefit from them, they call them great loving-kindness and great compassion.

Furthermore, great wisdom has as its nature the relinquishment, the rejection of dharmas; great loving-kindness and great compassion have as their nature pity for and service to beings. This pity and service are loved by all beings; that is why they call them great loving-kindness and great compassion of the Buddha.
Prostrations

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Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Anders wrote:
Anistar wrote:
What's wrong with hippies?

Personally, i think thats the way to go.


:smile:

If the avatar didn't give it away already, Keith is a self-confessed unrepentant hippie himself. I wager he is voicing his concern as someone on the inside of the culture.

You win that wager. :)
Quote:
I have little desire to correct people simply in the name of setting the record straight or making sure the world has a correct view (unless I am having a bad day maybe). At the same time, we are servants of truth too.

It's a fine line. I think it is important to make sure the correct view is heard from time to time. However, we don't have to insist that it be accepted.

Om mani padme hum
Keith


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:28 am 
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Sure hippies and new age advocates have watered down the teaching. I find some Western Christians in India with perhaps a hidden agenda can trot out the line 'all religions are the same' Nevertheless look at the Sermon on the mount, Kabir, the songs of Milarepa, advaita, Nisargadatta etc. They all point in one direction; Take it or leave it. "Stillness or Peace is Realization and you are already that"


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:59 am 
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Luke wrote:
Hello, A friend of mine has the outlook that "All religions are different paths to the same goal", "All is one", etc. And when I try to explain to her why Buddhism is actually different from most other religions, she gets offended because I'm ruining her "all is one" bliss and she says that I'm just being "dogmatic."

How can Buddhists deal with such people?

On the one hand, I think that such an accepting outlook is a good thing because it avoids religious conflicts and makes people generally kind and tolerant, but on the other hand, it kind of numbs people into a sort of ignorant, hippie-like bliss which makes them dislike any Buddhist teachings which are clearly different than those of other religions and makes them dislike any degree of precision in religious philosophy.

My feeling is that I should say nothing to such people because they won't listen to anything I say until they've realized that their generic, bliss-fest has some limitations.


I wouldn't worry too much about it.People will have their views,no matter how much they confuse us(I've found the same problem,but more because generally I'm dumbfounded how anyone could come to this conclusion.)

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A person once asked me why I would want to stop rebirth. "It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want to be reborn."
I replied. "Wanting to be reborn is like wanting to stay in a jail cell, when you have the chance to go free and experience the whole wide world. Does a convict, on being freed from his shabby, constricting, little cell, suddenly say "I really want to go back to jail and be put in a cell. It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want that?"


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