YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

Postby rowyourboat » Sun May 29, 2011 11:35 pm

Hi Alex,

Yes, good point. How much does the beginner really need to know? Origination (DO), cessation (DC), the gratification (senduality, the process of sensing an object) the drawbacks (three marks, asubha, insubstantiality), and the escape (the noble eightfold path and it's fruit). Alternatively one could include all of this in the 4NT. The Okkanta Samyutta is also a nice collection of suttas which seem to contain the theory requiredfor stream entry.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#okkanta

Bahussuta- Buddha seems to bring in bhavanamaya panna into it. Nice quote.

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 3476
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

Postby Alex123 » Mon May 30, 2011 1:39 am

How much theory does one really need to know in order to make all craving (taṇhā) fade away, cease and fully extinguish?

How much theory does one really need to know to treat anything and everything as anicca, or dukkha or anatta?
Even anicca contemplation alone can bring to abandoning of fetters (arhatship), and one can see dukkha in that which is anicca, and anatta in that which is dukkha. aniccasaññā, anicce dukkhasaññā, dukkhe anattasaññā.

Maybe the problem is in the hard and boring work? As it says in AN 4.186 and SN35.103 it states that 4 (or few) lines can be enough to be widely learnt (bahussuto) and knowledge master (vedagu).

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

Postby ground » Mon May 30, 2011 2:08 am


rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

Postby rowyourboat » Mon May 30, 2011 5:03 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

Postby ground » Mon May 30, 2011 6:07 am


User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 3476
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

Postby Alex123 » Mon May 30, 2011 12:47 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

Postby rowyourboat » Mon May 30, 2011 2:21 pm

Hi Alex,

We are trying to second guess a Sammasambuddha. When he decides it requires 8 disciplines to liberate the mind ie the noble eightfold path, we need to give each of those practices airing time. The trend to just pick mindfulness alone is a big blunder IMHO. The N8FP is the most commonly described path to all the attainments. We must develop familiarity with each of those eight...each of them quite distinct practices. They must be deliberately reviewed and worked on.

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 3476
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

Postby Alex123 » Mon May 30, 2011 2:41 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Ignorance: Lack of skill or wisdom?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue May 31, 2011 10:49 pm

Hi Alex,

Yes, sometimes the entire practice can be encapsulated in one of the steps of the noble eightfold path. The four foundations of mindfulness, the four right exertions come to mind. I guess even Right view could be viewed that way. In my practice I have found that there is nothing we can do to improve on what the Buddha has said - especially when teaching the masses. For a particular person mindfulnes or anicca alone maybe enough. But considering groups of people, that would be the minority. They will do really well in their practice. Others (the bulk of a group) need a full explanation of the noble eightfold path. What's more even if you started with anicca, as the path grows deeper, the full path starts blossoming and to fulfil those niggly bits you will find that the descriptions are indispensable. It would be a very rare person to whole the teaching of anicca/craving would be enough instruction to go all the way- which is not to say that such people cannot be found! It is also possible to have lopsided development in those people who focused on meditation alone and disregarded developing the other 6 path factors. We must be careful not to let this happen- less we turn into 'hermit crabs' of sorts. :meditate: :smile:

With metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 42 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine