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mindfulness includes insight? - Dhamma Wheel

mindfulness includes insight?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
chownah
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mindfulness includes insight?

Postby chownah » Mon May 30, 2011 3:22 am

In another thread it was suggested that mindfulness includes insight. I'm wondering if this is correct in that according to Nyanatiloka's dictionary the term "bala" is defined:

Bala: 'powers'. Among various groups of powers the following five are most frequently met with in the texts: 1 faith saddhā, 2 energy viriya, 3 awareness or mindfulness sati, 4 concentration samādhi, 5 understanding paññā .


If mindfulness included insight (here number five on the lists: understanding paññā) then I don't see how insight would be listed as a seperate power............

chownah

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ground
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby ground » Mon May 30, 2011 4:40 am

Since this refers to what I have written in another post I will elaborate a bit to try to make clear the meaning intended.

Different terms do not necessarily refer to different phenomena but may also refer to different aspects of one and the same phenomenon.
Reification confuses that which is referred to by terms with the different terms and their concomittant different concepts.

As to mindfulness and insight:
Without insight, mindfulness is impossible and insight is impossible without mindfulness.
Now does that mean that both, insight and mindfulness are impossible because one presupposes the other?
No because both, mindfulness and insight are progressively developing and enhancing each other. One may say "their quality is progressively refining".

The same holds true for mindfulness and concentration.


Kind regards

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IanAnd
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby IanAnd » Mon May 30, 2011 5:11 am

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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Goofaholix
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby Goofaholix » Mon May 30, 2011 5:14 am


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ground
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby ground » Mon May 30, 2011 5:15 am


chownah
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby chownah » Mon May 30, 2011 6:48 am


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Goofaholix
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby Goofaholix » Mon May 30, 2011 7:02 am


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ground
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby ground » Mon May 30, 2011 7:35 am


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ground
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby ground » Mon May 30, 2011 7:55 am


PeterB
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby PeterB » Mon May 30, 2011 9:12 am


chownah
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby chownah » Mon May 30, 2011 1:47 pm

OK!!! I think that here "includes" can be replaced with "is supported by" or "is dependent on" or " is benefitted by" or "is enhanced by"...... A new use for the term "includes"...or at least new to me!

Thanks everyone for your help in understanding this.
chownah

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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby Jhana4 » Mon May 30, 2011 2:02 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Alex123
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby Alex123 » Mon May 30, 2011 2:29 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: mindfulness includes insight?

Postby ancientbuddhism » Tue May 31, 2011 5:48 pm

As already indicated in this thread, sati indicates reflection, and in this case on a progressive contemplative purpose. This would resonate with the context of how the contemplative endeavor of sati is described in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta viz.

“…abides reflecting with intense endeavor and clear knowing…”
(“…viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā…”)MN. 10.4 -

Also, at the end of each paṭṭhāna group (upaṭṭāna for the Anālayo wallahs) we read what is sometimes referred to as the refrain of insight, again indication of the progressive nature of the contemplative aim above; there is contemplative reflection (anupassati) of phenomena (dhammas) rising & falling, which renders the object readily evident (paccupaṭṭhitā), resulting is essential knowledge (ñāṇamattāya), and essential reflection of the object (patissatimattāya). All of this delineating a contemplative attitude toward cultivating knowledge. Anālayo describes this on [pg. 94] as a progression of awareness "At this stage, when sati has become well-established, whatever occurs at any sense door automatically becomes part of the contemplation.", or as U Pandita has referred to this as 'sati falling on whatever arises'.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

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