Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

[kirtu]

The other option (maybe) is for the Bangladeshi Buddhists to move to India or Nepal or possibly to withdraw to really remote regions of Bangladesh (if they exist).

None of these are viable options, and as others have pointed out, my own idea for population exchange with Myanmar is equally flawed.

Withdrawing to really remote areas, provided that they exist, is very much an option. People have done this successfully historically.

We would all like to be Bruce Lee. In reality most people cannot learn martial arts sufficiently for actual combat - only for short term protection. The other issue is that hand to hand fighting can be bloody and vicious and most people can't be that vicious. The third thing is that most martial arts is stopped dead with a bullet (Indian Jones, Raiders of the Last Arc -that guy may have been the best swordsman alive but it didn't matter).

I also loved that scene in Indiana Jones, but I have to say that there is more to martial arts than you make out. Many years go I met a Chinese monk who could knock a man down with a palm strike from thirty feet away, even through a wall.

All I can say is that my martial arts teachers denied that such a thing was possible and one of them is a very well-known combat taiji teacher (he would deny the "combat" appellation but he effectively brought this kind of taiji to outside the Chinese world).

The point is that we cannot train sufficient numbers of people to a sufficiently high level to effectively defend communities. After others have decided to harm you then the first line of defense must be geographic.

Kirt

[Raksha]

Withdrawing to really remote areas, provided that they exist, is very much an option. People have done this successfully historically.

Unfortunately, they have already withdrawn to the remotest possible area, the Chittagong Hills.

All I can say is that my martial arts teachers denied that such a thing was possible and one of them is a very well-known combat taiji teacher (he would deny the "combat" appellation but he effectively brought this kind of taiji to outside the Chinese world)

With respect, mainland China denies all the accomplishments of Buddhist monks and masters. Furthermore, having murdered everyone who was literate or skilled, they had to re-invent Chinese medicine and martial arts from scratch in the 1950s. In the process they removed those parts of the internal energy system relating to higher accomplishments from their acupuncture charts, because in accordance with Communist party doctrine they 'denied that such a thing was possible'.
R.

[Gharchaina]

Incidentally, the majority of the Buddhists and Buddhist temples attacked in Cox's Bazaar are likely Bengali and not Chakma. There is a small community of Bengali Buddhists who live in Cox's Bazaar. Note the surname Barua for many of those interviewed. This is a Bengali surname quite common for the Buddhists there.

[pemachophel]

Raksha,

"Furthermore, having murdered everyone who was literate or skilled, they had to re-invent Chinese medicine and martial arts from scratch in the 1950s."

I don't know about the martial arts, but I went to the Shanghai College of Traditional Chinese Medicine and practiced Chinese medicine for 30 years before I retired a couple of years ago. I read Chinese and am pretty well up on both premodern and modern Chinese medical history. Your assertion about modern Chinese medicine is oft-repeated hear-say and is simply not true. The people who created the Chinese medical colleges and universities in the PRC in the 1950s were all famous Chinese doctors who had begun their studies under the Qing dynasty. During the Cultural Revolution 20 years later, some esoteric stuff was edited out and a lot of political propaganda was added to Chinese medical textbooks. But, by the mid-80s, Chinese doctors and medical students once again had complete access to the full corpus of premodern Chinese medical literature. So, from my personal experience and pretty extensive historical research, your assertions about Chinese medicine are more (Western) myth than actual fact.

[JKhedrup]

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/n ... =253751%3E

An unprecedented hate campaign against the Buddhist community raged through Ramu, a region known for its communal harmony for centuries until the night of September 29. Eighteen pagodas were damaged and about 50 houses burnt down in six hours of madness by Muslim zealots. Julfikar Ali Manik investigated extensively, only to find that the source of the shocking outrage was a faked facebook page.

Click here for related news
"Manufacturing Mayhem"
It was all faked.

The facebook page with an anti-Islam picture that provoked the September 29 rampage against the Buddhist community in Ramu was photoshopped.

Somebody or a group had taken a screenshot of Uttam Kumar Barua's facebook profile page, cut out the address of anti-Islam website “Insult allah” and pasted it on the address bar visible in the image.

Once the fabrication was done, it looked like “Insult allah” has shared the anti-Islam image with Uttam and 26 others.

The Daily Star showed the screenshot to IT and graphics experts.

The paper has become sure that it was a manipulation done to frame Uttam, who is a local Buddhist, and wreak mayhem that left 12 Buddhist temples burned to ashes and dozens of houses damaged.

A very innocent story was also cooked up about how Uttam's so-called facebook page came to public knowledge.

Omar Faruk, a youth of Ramu, claimed his friend Abdul Moktadir alias Alif, student of a private polytechnic institute in Chittagong, came to his mobile repairing shop in the evening of September 29.

According to Faruk, his friend signed in to his facebook account and made a scene finding Uttam's profile page bearing the anti-Islam photo.

Moktadir and Faruk claimed they had taken screenshots of the “profile page belonging to Uttam”.

The fabrication of screenshot could be the first part of the plan behind the mayhem and bringing rioters from outside Ramu the second part.

Why the plotters chose Uttam's profile is not clear yet. Uttam, an underprivileged assistant deed writer, has been on the run along with his wife and child since the night of the incident.

One thing is evident in the screenshot that someone called “Abdul Muktadir” had entered Uttam's profile though he was not a facebook friend. Uttam's profile was not restricted.

The facebook account of “Abdul Muktadir” is not accessible anymore.

But Faruk's friend who came to the shop in September 29 evening is registered at Chittagong Polytechnic Institute as Abdul Moktadir.

He was detained by police on October 9.

“My son is a very bright student. He got stipend when he was in school. He has hearing problem but his memory is very sharp,” said his mother Sajeda Begum at his house at Fakirabazar on October 6.

She refused to help The Daily Star meet her son Moktadir and repeatedly requested this correspondent to drop the idea of writing about the matter.

“He can fix mobile phone problems and he has very good computer knowledge as he studies computer engineering in Chittagong,” she said.

Talking to this correspondent on October 3, Faruk expressed annoyance as his help was sought to reach Moktadir.

He dropped out after class-IV, but he is skilled at repairing computers and mobile phones, he said.

Interestingly, his facebook account claims he studied at Ramu High School and Cox's Bazar Govt Collage.

He set up a shop three to four years ago at Fakirabazar in Ramu. Locally known as “Faruk's computer shop”, it is close to Moktadir's house.

Faruk denied link with any organisation or political party. Sajeda claimed the same about his son Moktadir.

Moktadir admitted that he was involved with Islami Chhatra Shibir when he was a student of class IX and X in 2008-09 at Ramu Khizari Adarsha High School, according to a police official.

Moktadir's mother also claimed nobody among their close relatives has any involvement in politics.

However, one of her brothers-in-law is Naikhangchhari upazila chairman of in Bandarban. His name is Tofail Ahmed, who doesn't hold any official post but locally everyone knows him as a Jamaat leader.

Tofail denied his involvement with Jamaat and said he was in Islami Chhatra Shibir, student wing of the party, when he was student of Chittagong University.

Surprisingly, Sajeda Begum, while giving names and brief profile of her close relatives to this reporter, mentioned the brother-in-law as Ali Ahmed.

But when her brother said it is Tofail Ahmed, she looked embarrassed but explained nothing.

Images in Faruk's computer
Some anti-Islam images were already stored in Faruk's computer at the shop.

Faruk claimed to this correspondent he and his friend Abdul Moktadir quickly created some image files with screenshots of Uttam's facebook account.

They did this as two strangers in his shop were unhappy seeing the pictures on their facebook, he said.

They saved the pictures after the strangers left, said Faruk, adding that they had to download some software to do it.

Faruk said they created the files to prove to the locals that the picture insulting the Quran did not belong to them and was from Uttam's profile.

He also added that Uttam's account suddenly disappeared within a short time after they saved the images. Faruk's claim was very confusing as no one else, except the account holder, can deactivate a facebook account.

And, moments after the departure of the two strangers, there was a continuous flow of people curious to see the pictures. All of them were shown images stored in Faruk's computer.

The people with no knowledge about social networking site facebook believed that was Uttam's facebook page with the anti-Islam image.

Faruk and Moktadir not only exhibited fabricated screenshots of Uttam's facebook profile, but also stored many pictures downloaded from “Insult allah” and the Quran-insulting photo, which was later circulated from mobile phones to mobile phones via Bluetooth.

In fact, there were significant anomalies between the claims of Faruk, Moktadir's mother and other local witnesses who saw the pictures at Faruk's shop.

Many locals got the images from Faruk and Moktadir on September 29 evening. They were local journalists, Faruk said, adding he does not know their names but would be able to recognise everyone.

Faruk on October 3 claimed that he could not give The Daily Star the images since the Ramu police have been keeping his computer since the night of September 29.

The Daily Star got those pictures, but from Nazir Hossain, owner of a local computer-training shop. He said the pictures were spread from Faruk's shop and after September 29, he collected those from locals.

Locals and a police official said these are the images they had seen on Faruk's computer.

Faruk claimed the picture in question appeared on his facebook page. Moktadir first saw it and then him.

But the collected pictures does not support Faruk's claim. The account of “Abdul Muktadir” was used while seeing Uttam's profile page and taking the screenshots.

If someone does not restrict his/her profile, every facebook account holder can view some information of that person. Otherwise, a brief restricted version of the profile is seen.

This correspondent failed to reach Uttam for a comment.

URL FAKED
“www.facebook.com/Insultallahswt” appeared in the browser address bar of the profile page of Uttam, according to the screenshot taken by “Abdul Muktadir”.

But the image had clear signs of manipulation suggesting that “/Insultallahswt” was pasted there either to hide the real address or to convince people how bad Uttam was.

Even the information above the tagged picture on Uttam's profile --“Insult allah with Uttam Kumar Barua and 26 others” with a date of September 18 -- was similarly forged.

It was not possible to know whether this manipulation was done on Faruk's computer or it was put in his computer after making the images somewhere else.

Answers to these questions are locked in Faruk's computer seized by the police, said an expert.

WHO WERE THE STARNGERS?
According to Faruk, two men aged 23-24 saw “Uttam's facebook page” on his computer along with him and Moktadir.

Faruk had never seen the two before. Faruk was born and brought up in South Sreekul of Ramu.

Moktadir's mother Sajeda claimed that she heard that four customers in the shop made the hue and cry seeing the picture on Faruk's computer.

A person, who had seen the picture that night at the shop, requesting anonymity said being informed, he along with a few others went there around 8:30pm.

He did not find Faruk there; a boy unknown to him was showing the pictures. The “unknown nice looking” boy was also explaining to the locals the meaning of the picture.

“When the boy was giving me explanations of a picture, I told him not to explain and just to show the pictures.”

The Daily Star investigation found this unknown boy was Moktadir.

[gregkavarnos]

Looks like a darn good reason to not have a Facebook account to me!

[JKhedrup]

I agree heartily (But darn I already have facebook!). There have been a few incidents recently where facebook has been used to create conflict between various different communities.
The internet when misused can cause great pain and suffering.

[Dknaga12]

0aa.jpg

[kirtu]

Withdrawing to really remote areas, provided that they exist, is very much an option. People have done this successfully historically.

Unfortunately, they have already withdrawn to the remotest possible area, the Chittagong Hills.

Ok ....

All I can say is that my martial arts teachers denied that such a thing was possible and one of them is a very well-known combat taiji teacher (he would deny the "combat" appellation but he effectively brought this kind of taiji to outside the Chinese world)

With respect, mainland China denies all the accomplishments of Buddhist monks and masters. Furthermore, having murdered everyone who was literate or skilled, they had to re-invent Chinese medicine and martial arts from scratch in the 1950s. In the process they removed those parts of the internal energy system relating to higher accomplishments from their acupuncture charts, because in accordance with Communist party doctrine they 'denied that such a thing was possible'.
R.

Neither of the two teachers (actually three) who said this in my presence were Communists or illiterate. One was the exponent of a Taoist lineage and the other two were taught by famous teachers of the old generation. It's not like they have the absolute final word but I would certainly not dismiss their statements.

Remember that even Bruce Lee's 3 inch punch was initially considered a trick. It would be difficult to imagine a martial artist (except in legend) projecting chi with the effect you mentioned.

Kirt

[Raksha]

It would be difficult to imagine a martial artist (except in legend) projecting chi with the effect you mentioned.

It's difficult to imagine a Bodhisattva doing anything either. I'm not sure where to go with this thread, or indeed any other. Pemachophel studied TCM for decades, Kirtu has his favourite martial arts teachers and Huifeng visited monasteries in China where he was very happy and impressed. Suppose I systematically destroyed any shred of credibility in mainland China and everything that hails from there, what good would it do? Others would naturally defend their cherished views, and then I would counterattack, until there was only silence left on this thread. The result would be that others would be left with ill-feelings, and I would have acquired a very negative appearance. Perhaps Malcolm's departure was a very wise move. In the words of Nagarjuna,'The career of the sage is of two kinds; he is either revered by all in the world, like a flower waving its head, or else he disappears into the silent forest.'

[kirtu]

It would be difficult to imagine a martial artist (except in legend) projecting chi with the effect you mentioned.

It's difficult to imagine a Bodhisattva doing anything either.

It depends on what kind of Bodhisattvic activity you mean. If you mean someone who is able to create a soup kitchen for the abandoned American homeless and add to that a housing facility and successful education program, then that would be pretty rare but not actually improbable.

If you mean a person who helps another person just due to compassionate motivation then that is less rare.

If you mean a person who flies all by himself, without any machine to another point (perhaps with a cabdriver observing and exclaiming to his passenger "Look, it's that evil Bodhisattva Rasksha! Don't let his shadow touch you!"), well, that just hasn't been seen in a while. This fact doesn't stop Bodhisattvas from going on pilgrimage with their feet, bus, train, airplane, through. Shabkar did not recorded flying during his pilgrimages, just going on foot. Neither did Dzongsar Khyentse.

I'm not sure where to go with this thread, or indeed any other. Pemachophel studied TCM for decades, Kirtu has his favourite martial arts teachers and Huifeng visited monasteries in China where he was very happy and impressed. Suppose I systematically destroyed any shred of credibility in mainland China and everything that hails from there, what good would it do? Others would naturally defend their cherished views, and then I would counterattack, until there was only silence left on this thread. The result would be that others would be left with ill-feelings, and I would have acquired a very negative appearance. '

Ok ... the issue is that extraordinary claims require some evidence. Projecting chi to knock a person down behind a wall or over 10ft away is known in legend. No one around has seen it though. And the teachers I mentioned were around pre-Communism. They have seen extraordinary things though, just not this one. BTW this is not an attack/counterattack.

However to get back to the thread, what can we do for the Bangldeshi Buddhists?

Kirt

[viniketa]

However to get back to the thread, what can we do for the Bangldeshi Buddhists?

http://www.charity-charities.org/Bangla ... 87332.html

[Ikkyu]

Ikkyu, things are not what they seem. For example, in the photograph of HHDL with Tibetan Muslim women a couple are wearing full face coverings. Why are they wearing the fashion of the old Ottoman Turkish court? In al-Quran it simply advises women to cover their hair and dress modestly, much like the present day Plymouth Brethren in Christianity. The Ottomans invented the full body covering for women because they were obsessed with social class and considered ordinary people too low class to even gaze on their womenfolk, so it is a social convention that has nothing to do with the Islamic religion. As for the crusades, your assessment is completely wrong, then as now, it was the Christians who were the aggressors. Muslim soldiers refused to engage in close combat with Christian knights because of their extreme body odour, having washed only once in their lives and having travelled thousands of miles in their plate armour it must have been almost enough to kill enemies without requiring a sword.

"You will never find any people who believe in Allah and the last Day (Muslims) on friendly terms with those who oppose Allah and His Messenger (non-Muslims), even though they be their fathers, their sons, their brothers or their relatives. It is they in whose hearts Allah has inscribed faith and has strengthened them with a spirit of His own. He will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, to live therein forever. Allah will be well pleased with them, and they will be well pleased with Him. They are the party of Allah. Beware! Surely it is the party of Allah that will be successful."

-- Qur'an: Surat al-Mujadilah 58:22 (trans. Muhammad Farooq-i-Azam Malik)

("Oppose" is sometimes translated as "resist" from the classical Arabic.)

Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Take not as (your) bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends, etc.) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made clear to you the aayaat (proofs, evidence, verses), if you understand. Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e., you believe in the Tawraat and the Injeel, while they disbelieve in your Book (the Qur’aan)]. And when they meet you, they say, ‘We believe.’ But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: ‘Perish in your rage. Certainly Allaah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets).’ If a good befalls you, it grieves them, but some evil overtakes you, they rejoice at it…” [Aal ‘Imran 3:118-120].

I think this may have to do with the less than cordial relationship between Muslims and the rest of humanity as of late (and historically). If you are a Muslims and your own mother is not you are forbidden by God to love her, as the Arabic term form friendly also implies love and affection and has been translated as such by a number of other Qur'anic narrators. There is such an us-and-them attitude of elitism in Islam that of course this would occur. (The temple burning in question.)

This article, http://debate.org.uk/topics/theo/qur-chrs.htm, on the Muslim-Christian Debate Website, analyzes evidence from several ayah (verses) throughout the Qur'an, and conclude that, "The Qur'an promotes exceptionally negative views of Christians and Christianity. These views support Islamic convictions of superiority over Christianity."

The Qur'an, furthermore, denounces mushrik (kafir/infidels who are not as privileged (although that doesn't mean a lot... well, other than the jizya tax levied on non-Muslims but not Muslims themselves in Muslim countries) as the "People of the Book" (e.g. Christians, Jews and "Sabians" (probably Zoroastrians)) as some of the worst scum on the planet. *Hint, hint* Buddhists are included in this group and are, as the Qur'an and hadith states repeatedly, "destined for the Fire", and are to be "fought until all men say that there is no God but Allah." (Muhammad's dying words.) Please recall that some of the earliest victims of the Muslim "conquests" (genocides) that occurred within Muhammad's lifetime (he commanded many raids, battles and killed many people and in one hadith of al-Bukhari is narrated as gouging out the eyes of two men who "caused mischief in the land") and after were the Buddhists of Pakistan, Afghanistan and that part of Asia. The Buddhist culture of these places was destroyed, as well as Nalanda University (an infamous Buddhist university) by Turkic Muslims. Nalanda was one of the most important institutes of higher learning in the world at that time and was a Buddhist pilgrimage site because the Buddha was said to have traveled there in the suttas.

Thus:

[gregkavarnos]

I think this may have to do with the less than cordial relationship between Muslims and the rest of humanity as of late (and historically).

I disagree. This passage may be taken out of context to justify violence against non-Muslims but the key word here is "oppose". I am sure there will be volumes of exegesis reagrding this what does opposition to "Allah and his messenger" actually means.

You see it could mean that Muslims cannot be friends with those that persecute them, or it can mean that Muslims cannot be friends to those that do not convert to Islam. Plenty of room there for a variety of interpretations wouldn't you say, and not all of them negative?

[viniketa]

Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Take not as (your) bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends, etc.) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you....

Paul gives similar counsel to Christians in the Gospels, so I don't think you can single-out Muslims for these ideals. Even Buddha says:

"...admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

[gregkavarnos]

PS Ikkyu, it is considered bad form to edit (except maybe for spelling mistakes) ones post AFTER somebody has replied to it. The correct thing to do is make a new post with the additional information.

[oldbob]

It would be difficult to imagine a martial artist (except in legend) projecting chi with the effect you mentioned.

It's difficult to imagine a Bodhisattva doing anything either. I'm not sure where to go with this thread, or indeed any other. Pemachophel studied TCM for decades, Kirtu has his favourite martial arts teachers and Huifeng visited monasteries in China where he was very happy and impressed. Suppose I systematically destroyed any shred of credibility in mainland China and everything that hails from there, what good would it do? Others would naturally defend their cherished views, and then I would counterattack, until there was only silence left on this thread. The result would be that others would be left with ill-feelings, and I would have acquired a very negative appearance. Perhaps Malcolm's departure was a very wise move. In the words of Nagarjuna,'The career of the sage is of two kinds; he is either revered by all in the world, like a flower waving its head, or else he disappears into the silent forest.'

Indeed the silent forest is a good thing.

Least Malcolm be canonized too early - I do think he will get there, --- you can visit him at:

vajracakra.com

where he is blithely posting away - 81 posts so far. Rumor has it that he lost it for a second time on DW, and let loose a blistering hissyfit, as only those raised in the hollows and dales of Western Mass., can do. The wrath of Malcolm can knock anyone over at 100 yards - and through walls too. Perhaps he was chagrined at loosing it and left to nurse his wounds. That said, he, and all the others, are missed, and hopefully Malcolm will soon return to bring his unmatchable great knowledge, erudition, and wisdom - back to the DW table. My 2 cents is the more wheels the merrier: it is good to turn the Wheel, whatever its name.

We miss you Malcolm (and Marcos and Ben, etc.). Come back soon. Do your best!

Now, to keep on target, what does this have to do with Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh?

People do what they think is best for them at the moment. They can change their minds.

So with our hearts going out to our fellow Buddhists in Bangladesh - what can we practically do at the moment?

Sure, sending money to charity organizations is one idea, but there must be something else.

With all the brain power, martial arts experience, and worldly experience, hanging around here --- what else can we come up with?

Best, ob

[Dan74]

In response, oldbob, one thing my limited imagination comes up with is Respect.

This happened due to perceived disrespect and the actions of course show an utter lack of respect. This thread is not exactly brimming with respect either. Just imagine replacing Muslim with Jew in some of the posts here and shudder! But Muslims are fair play - they are all the same apparently.

So perhaps what we can do is cultivate respect for all people and even make a statement. Like a "We Do Not Hate" facebook page or "I respect all faiths" campaign and see people join up from across the globe and different faiths.

Two good friends are Muslims, one from Bangladesh. He only shook his head when I mentioned the incident to him. I was in Turkey not long ago, a modern democratic and pluralistic Muslim country people forget about when they break in lather equating Islam with Taliban or 9/11. Marginalising and denigrating Islam and Muslims is only going to feed extremism. What was it the Buddha said about conquering hate with hate?

[oldbob]

In response, oldbob, one thing my limited imagination comes up with is Respect.

This happened due to perceived disrespect and the actions of course show an utter lack of respect. This thread is not exactly brimming with respect either. Just imagine replacing Muslim with Jew in some of the posts here and shudder! But Muslims are fair play - they are all the same apparently.

So perhaps what we can do is cultivate respect for all people and even make a statement. Like a "We Do Not Hate" facebook page or "I respect all faiths" campaign and see people join up from across the globe and different faiths.

Two good friends are Muslims, one from Bangladesh. He only shook his head when I mentioned the incident to him. I was in Turkey not long ago, a modern democratic and pluralistic Muslim country people forget about when they break in lather equating Islam with Taliban or 9/11. Marginalising and denigrating Islam and Muslims is only going to feed extremism. What was it the Buddha said about conquering hate with hate?

The facebook idea is a great idea. What prevents you from doing it? What do you need to go forward with this idea? I think you can just do it.

How can we teach respect to those who burned down the houses and temples in Bangladesh?

ob

[gregkavarnos]

How can we teach respect to those who burned down the houses and temples in Bangladesh?

By showing patience and compassion. By perservering with the application of our Bodhisattva vows. By not reacting with anger hatred and calls for revenge. By asking the government of the country to prosectute the perpetrators of the criminal acts for their acts and not for their (apparent) beliefs.