the great vegetarian debate

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Veg food catching on in Mongolia

Postby purplelotus10 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:30 pm

Isn't there a real famine in Mongolia at the moment?

There was an item about it on the BBC news - real hardship due to drought (I think).

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Strange but true...

Postby msmedusa » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:16 pm

I heard a bizzare conversation on my car radio yesterday which I thought I would share .. for entertainment reasons if nothing else!

An interviewer was chatting with fellow DJ about her lifestyle off air. She proudly announced that she was a vegetarian. He asked her if she ate fish and she replied that yes indeed she did and some kinds of meat, he was obviously confused and asked her to explain.

She said she was only a vegetarian when it came to certain animals, and that she had a strict policy only to eat the flesh of animals she would be happy to kill with her own hands should the need arise.

Apparently...she didnt eat rabbit or duck because she found them 'cute' and would not be able to bring herself to kill them. She didnt eat chicken because although she could kill a chicken in theory she would find it too distressing and messy to pluck one.

But she would willingly gorge on beef or pork because she felt that if push came to shove she could kill a cow or a pig ...as long as they didnt look at her 'because they have sad eyes'.

I dont know if its a co-incidence but... :spy: I just passed a field of cows wearing sunglasses :rolleye:

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Re: Strange but true...

Postby Clueless Git » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:19 am

Did she also declare herself to be celibate on the grounds that she only sleeps with people she likes?
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the great vegetarian debate

Postby sukhamanveti » Wed May 26, 2010 4:00 am

I became a vegetarian in the mid-1990s until the summer of 2005 (long story), then I returned to vegetarianism after a few years. It is an ethical and religious commitment for me (now unbreakable), but I have experienced health benefits as a result.
namo bhagavate śākyamunaye tathāgatāyārhate samyaksaṁbuddhāya | namaḥ sarvabuddhabodhisattvebhyaḥ ||

"Bodhisattva-mahāsattvas love all beings in the world equally, as if each were their only child..." Buddhāvataṃsakamahāvaipulya Sūtra
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Re: Vegetarianism

Postby Luke » Wed May 26, 2010 4:30 pm

Does anyone know a good site which has very simple vegetarian recipes with very ordinary ingredients online?

So many vegetarian recipes require so many exotic foods and spices which I can't get here in Eastern Europe. Here I can only get the basics: legumes, dairy products, bread, pasta, rice, potatoes and other vegetables, and fruits. I can't buy things like tempeh or quinoa or even soybeans here. And tofu is available only in stores which are pretty far away from me.

Lentils, red kidney beans, and baked beans are my staples here.
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Re: Vegetarianism

Postby sukhamanveti » Thu May 27, 2010 6:49 pm

Luke wrote:Does anyone know a good site which has very simple vegetarian recipes with very ordinary ingredients online?

So many vegetarian recipes require so many exotic foods and spices which I can't get here in Eastern Europe. Here I can only get the basics: legumes, dairy products, bread, pasta, rice, potatoes and other vegetables, and fruits. I can't buy things like tempeh or quinoa or even soybeans here. And tofu is available only in stores which are pretty far away from me.

Lentils, red kidney beans, and baked beans are my staples here.


Hi, Luke.

Here are two websites that have some easy recipes that you would be able to do:

http://allrecipes.com/Recipes/Everyday- ... /Main.aspx

http://vegweb.com/

Consider, for example, the Argentine Lentil Stew at the first link. It is made mostly from lentils, tomatoes, onions, carrots, apples, and peas. At the first link you also have Cucumber Sandwiches and Spaghetti Squash recipes, as well as Pumpkin Pie. At the second link you have Banana Cinnamon Toast and Super Duper Delish Garlic Rosemary Potatoes (Easy). Unfortunately, the easier stuff is hidden amongst the difficult. You may have to hunt a bit or try entering "easy" in the search engines. In a few instances it looks like all you would need to do is substitute milk for soy milk, as in the case of Very Simple Blueberry Muffins or the Easy South Western Tomato Soup at the second link, or margarine for vegan margerine (see Lentil Dahl at the second link).

I asked a friend (also a vegetarian) for suggestions as well and he replied, "Ask him what kind of spice cabinet he can keep."
namo bhagavate śākyamunaye tathāgatāyārhate samyaksaṁbuddhāya | namaḥ sarvabuddhabodhisattvebhyaḥ ||

"Bodhisattva-mahāsattvas love all beings in the world equally, as if each were their only child..." Buddhāvataṃsakamahāvaipulya Sūtra
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Re: Vegetarianism

Postby Luke » Thu May 27, 2010 7:56 pm

Thanks for the links, Sukhamanveti. The Argentine soup looks doable. I have no idea what a "spaghetti squash" is. I'm seen squash in the supermarket, but I'm not sure if they are this type. I'm not sure if I can get feta cheese here either. For cheese, I'm pretty much limited to gouda, edam, and swiss.

sukhamanveti wrote:I asked a friend (also a vegetarian) for suggestions as well and he replied, "Ask him what kind of spice cabinet he can keep."

Eh, I'm not much of a cook so I haven't paid too much attention in the supermarket, but I know for a fact that I can get garlic, paprika, and pepper here. I'll have to look next time I'm at the store.
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Care for animals: joyful life.

Postby muni » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:48 am

Beerwah, Australia — With creatures great and small around him, the Dalai Lama called Wednesday for a halt to lab experiments on animals and made the case for eating only fruits and vegetables - all at the zoo of the late "Crocodile Hunter" Steve Irwin.

The spiritual head of Tibetan Buddhists delicately handled a Burmese python and petted a koala as he was feted like a rock star at Australia Zoo, speaking to a sold-out crowd of 5,000 at its open-air "Crocoseum."

"Hunting, beef, sheep farms, piggeries, millions, billions, die," the Dalai Lama said. "We can be so cruel to animals."

Although he sometimes sparked laughter with his remarks, the Dalai Lama's 30-minute address also had a more serious note: He criticized companies and organizations that he said "remain indifferent" to the rights of animals by experimenting on them.

Irwin, host of the TV wildlife show "Crocodile Hunter," died last September when the barb from a stingray pierced his chest while he was diving on the Great Barrier Reef.

The Dalai Lama thanked Irwin's family for their support of wildlife.

"Taking care of animals is essential to developing more happiness in human beings," he said. "I appreciate Steve Irwin and his wife, Terri, all their dedication."

The hourlong zoo tour was a change for the Dalai Lama, whose trip to Australia has prompted lawmakers to express concern about meetings with the man China considers an exiled troublemaker.

After weeks of hedging, Prime Minister John Howard agreed to see the Dalai Lama on Friday. Howard is anxious not to offend Beijing because Australia's economy is closely tied to China's booming demand for natural resources. China, which rules Tibet, has used diplomatic pressure to discourage governments from meeting with the Dalai Lama, and Beijing immediately criticized Howard's decision to see him.

The Dalai Lama, his long red robe flapping in the wind, received a standing ovation as he took the stage at the Crocoseum on a sunny but crisp winter morning.

Some of the crowd waved Buddhist prayer flags, and about a dozen Australian native birds, including black cockatoos and rainbow lorikeets, unexpectedly flew into the stadium just as he began speaking.

The Dalai Lama described the benefits of being a vegetarian, saying he became meat, dairy and egg-free in 1965, although he acknowledges he now eats meat occasionally. He said he used to buy animals to save them from the slaughterhouses when he was a young man in Tibet.

Asked to speak about the importance of family, the Dalai Lama urged parents to show as much compassion as possible to their children, and suggested that children be taught "warmheartedness" as part of the school curriculum.

The 71-year-old admitted he's not sure how he'd cope as a parent.

"I'm a monk, so I have no children ... but I may lose my temper," he said with a laugh.

The Dalai Lama's visit ended when Terri Irwin and her children, Bindi and Bob, came on stage, with Bindi carrying a koala.

"He is rather lazy ... just like myself," the Dalai Lama joked of the koala before presenting the Irwin family with Buddhist white scarves, or katas, which are used to signal the positive start of new relationships.


http://www2.ljworld.com/photos/2007/jun/14/126573/ Picture Dalai Lama and koala.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9lk5pe6 ... re=related
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Protein shake question

Postby sangyey » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:50 pm

I just was wondering if protein shakes from GNC would be okay to use as a vegetarian? I started eating vegetarian a week ago and am having a lot of success but I like to drink protein shakes in the morning and was wondering if any kind of protein shake is okay for a vegetarian?

Thanks for the help.
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Re: Protein shake question

Postby KeithBC » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:59 pm

Well, what's in it?

If it contains ingredients made from flesh, then it wouldn't be vegetarian. If the protein comes from milk (for example, casein) or eggs, then it would be suitable for lacto-vegetarians or ovo-vegetarians respectively, but not for vegans.

Congratulations on your new lifestyle. Now, you have to start reading the ingredients lists on manufactured food products.

Om mani padme hum
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Re: Protein shake question

Postby sangyey » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:53 pm

Thank you :)

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Re: Protein shake question

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:06 am

As Keith aptly mentions it does depend.
And to add to his excellent comment..

Being vegan for the most part since 1990 I have some experience in the thing as well. And I like to assist anyone to become or stay one since it produces less harm.

If you want a protein shake that is vegan which is the least harm producing form of vegetarian in the west it must be looked for generally in health food stores whole foods or places like that. Most protein shakes in a supermarket do contain casein or whey which are dairy derived normally. So to find a vegan protein you have to look around a bit. But if just vegetarian many of those supermarket proteins would suffice. YOu must check the ingredients however to be sure. Some combine meat derived sources of protein

Pure protein.... there are varieties of rice protein, soy protein, and occasionally found is pea protein.
If you desire a not so pure protein but with omega 3 oils inside a hemp protein is best. Omega 3's are normally found in oily fish so this may be a bit hard to find in some vegan diets. So I advocate for it as having proper fat balance is important for health.

No offense to my vegetarian friends but many of them especially vegans tend to look washed out and unhealthy, and are in fact not posessing strength. That to my take is because of missing important addons such as that fat and B12 to mention but two.

I lift large weights to counter my meditative practices which due to my tendencies leave me a bit spacy. So I do that thing and must have a adequate diet to perform such things. So I have learned from much trial and error, and do supplement protein about daily.Though if one has not so rigerous a physical, they probably do not need supplementation. TVP or wheat proteing marketed as seiten has a very very high constituant protein. Substituted directly for meat it fills most normal protein requirements. I'd guess it actually has more protein than a equilivent of meat. Plain beans of any sort are great for protein, tofu and such a so so source. Pure pea soup, crushed peas are very high in protein, not necessarily the soups however as they add other things. HOme made price wise I would suggest that may be the way to go.

Just protein....rice
protein and omega oils....hemp.
HOmemade.... dried peas

Soy bothers my stomech, for some it may work. Papaya is a great supplement or add on to digest thiings.

If you need to know the less harm produced in the west from being basically vegan as opposed to just vegetarian I can explain that. Being just vegetarian is a great move however regardless....
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Protein shake question

Postby justsit » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:32 am

One powdered protein source that is non-GMO, no soy, no whey, no animal products, no dairy, no gluten, and hypoallergenic is called "Plant Fusion." The protein combination is a proprietary blend of pea, brown rice, and artichoke. You can mix one 30g serving in juice or whatever liquid, say, almond milk. Add a whole banana or any fruit, a bit on honey if you like sweet, and a tablespoon of raw organic wheat germ. Blend for 30 seconds. Provides 22g protein, 1.5g fat (none saturated), 117 cal. Costs about $30 for a 2 lb can, which works out to about $1/serving for a high quality source. And it blends easily in liquid and tastes good, too. Highly recommend.
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Re: Protein shake question

Postby sangyey » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:39 am

Thank you for the 'Plant Fusion' recommendation justsit I will definitely keep it in mind and see where I can find it.

Thanks as well for the information ronnewmexico. You said that you could explain why being vegan as opposed to vegetarian in the west produces less harm but I think that I will hold back from now on asking why because I would like to take it step-by-step first getting used to vegetarian living. I definitely think that if I can do that for some period of time then perhaps I can go vegan but I just want to see where this takes me. I am interested in your supplemenation of your meditation with weights. I myself try various other things like walking, lifting, yoga, and biking now because I have a lot of time but the only problem is I know once I finish school I won't have time for much of the stuff. I've been trying to think of a supplemental exercise that I could just focus on hopefully for the rest of my life but I am having a hard time figuring out which would work best. I like yoga but at the same time I know its important to get cardiovascular. What are your thoughts on this?
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Re: Protein shake question

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:16 am

My personal opinion undoubtably conflicts with most. And I have no book nor authority to substantiate these things as I see them. I will state only they work for me, to be successful in my physical and enhance my meditation,and they seem to be true.


If you meditate a lot and consume vegetarian focused foods to my opinion you are by those activities mitigating the expansive side of things. Which will be furthur enhanced by yoga stretching swimming those type of activitites. To counter that and balance more, as that is what I do.... I counter with the most constrictive form of exercise which is weight lifting. Running other activities also tend to the concentrated side as opposed to expansive side of things. Of course since they are so constrictive I may engage in yoga type activities and those others without fear of to much expansion. It is simply not possible with how I lift. I lift for strength and power which reinforces my need to keep grounded and not spacy. Very large weights and few reps as focus for the day. Meditation may also tend towards the expansive side of things for most so this is my primary counter.

Now if you have a vegetarian diet meditate a bit, do yoga and stretching to my opinion unless you are very rare in the physical you will become very expansive in all things(with time not in the immediate). In meditation this will lead to a nothought dreamy sleepy type of thing which is not conducive to spiritual practice. It may be very peaceful and quiet, pleasureable but it leads not, generally, to spiritual progression. For most of us we must counter our meditational periods between the two extreems of sleep and uncontrolled thought, no extreem is beneficial. Both are ok for short periods but not as a steady diet.

So as spiritual progression and the meditations are most important and those are perhaps your choices I would choose a activity that is not to expansive. Perhaps running or some such. A thing which seems constrictive.YOu may of course when that is done then do yoga or whatever else you feel like. It will be impossible to become to expansive.

So that is my advice if you choose one activity, even simple exercises such as jumping rope or push ups are constrictive but they must all be done with effort. Any exercise done with little to no effort is expansive. Swimming at a competitive level will be constrictive but swimming as most do is expansive.

So It is a bit complex.

If you have discipline. If not you must simply do what you enjoy. I suspect you have discipline.
Protein balances the expansive effect of the vegetarian diet to a degree.
Be careful as vegetarian however to not just substitute cheese or milk products for everything meat as that is very unhealthful In India heart disease and such is not at all rare even though most may be vegetarian. Creams heavy sauces are included in many peoples diets....they are most unhealthful.

I stayed a simple vegetarian for four years before going vegan so I respect your choice of how you are doing it.
It is very very good you are doing this thing!!! Be very happy you have made that choice.

IN some tantric methods in historic Tibet practitioners were in fact advised to consume meat products for certain practices to be completed. To my opinion this is as those things required strength and power which are constrictive attributes as opposed to flexability or adaptability which are expansive attributes. For some practices a vegetarian diet may be preferable...but this all is again the personal opinion of me.
The spiritual was considered more important than the harm by eating meat for those that practices that tantra when those practices were initiated to Tibet to my opinion..
It is important to my view to have the capacity for strength if one is to have success at this thing. Comparative physical strength is not at all important as in how much weight I can lift. But strength of the physical by physical discipline directly translates to strength of the mind to my observation. ONe may be able to direct meditational focus and not simply fall asleep or become dreamy. So some adaptability expansion is fine...to much and it will as described hinder practice. To much constriction and you will have no concentration and end up like Americans immobile in front of TV's of on cell phones and such, always talking, with gigantic guts and foul mood swings. Eating so much meat makes them very constrictive on a permenant basis. If you meditate it will be filled with thoughts only...nonproductive. Their agression politic speak of constriction. A lack of energy to do things, and a bit to much of the silent, which may be found in some tropical countries with vegetarian diets speaks to a bit too excessive expansion. I do not think successful meditators are ever to soft nor to hard.

So we must balance.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Protein shake question

Postby sangyey » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:38 pm

Thank you very much for the reply.
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No Killing

Postby Will » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:49 pm

Here is You-Bin Chen on the killing-karma of abortion:

Given current affluence in certain Buddhist countries, everyone is into "money" and this has led to the business of saving souls-such things as "making offerings to unborn souls." The Master's [Hsuan Hua] comments regarding this issue are:

"You can't call that 'making offerings' because they are not the Triple Jewel (Buddha, Dharma, Sangha). If you call that 'making offerings' then you have fallen into deviant views. It should be called 'saving.' But their enmity is extremely deep and so they are difficult to save, because the debt is one of having had their lives snatched away and so it has to be paid back with having one's own life snatched away in return. But if one encounters a true cultivator who is not 'greedy for wealth' then there's a 'chance' to save them.

"The question of abortion is an extremely serious one. One of the biggest reasons there are so many doubts and difficulties and so many different kinds of diseases is because of abortions. Stop and think about it: Before the life-form even had a chance to come out into the world it became a resentful ghost. Tell me, with so many small ghosts around who are bent on taking life because their own was taken, how can we ever expect humankind to be at peace? These small ghosts must find someone who practices the Way and is not 'greedy for wealth' before they can be saved."

In this passage the Master brings up how "their enmity is extremely deep." that they are difficult to save, and that the cultivator must "not be greedy for wealth" before there's a "chance" to save them. So please don't be superstitious, everyone, and think that using "money" to create lots of merit and virtue will "take care of everything" and get involved in "saving souls." If you do, then that is a case of failing to understand the essentials of cause and effect. Besides which, the Buddhist Sutras repeatedly say that one should not kill or have abortions. For instance, in The Buddha Speaks the Dharani Sutra of Long Life and the Protection of Pure Youths there is a passage: "There are Five things in the world that are difficult to erase, even through repentance and reform. What are the five?

1) Killing one's father. 2) killing one's mother; 3) killing an unborn child; 4) shedding the Buddhas' blood; and 5) breaking up the harmony of the Sangha. If one creates this evil karma, the offenses are hard to eradicate." In The Buddha Talks About Different Karmic Retributions Sutra there's a passage that says: "There are ten kinds of karma that will cause beings to receive the retribution of a short lifespan. 1) Personally committing acts of killing; 2) exhorting others to commit acts of killing...?) destroying an unborn child (that means personally having abortions); 8) telling others to destroy an unborn child (that means advising someone else to have an abortion)...These ten deeds bring the retribution of a short lifespan." Also in The Buddha Explains the Five Upasaka Precepts Marks he said: "If one deliberately has an abortion and the fetus dies, one commits 'an offense that cannot be repented of.'"
Revealing one essence: this means the inherently pure, complete, luminous essence, which is pure of its own nature. -- Fa-tsang
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Re: No Killing

Postby ronnewmexico » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:03 pm

Sure abortions bad. Noone prefers to have one. The fact remains there exists not enough in the way of societal support to assist a single parent woman in the raising of a child in most all areas of the globe.

So they have a abortion as last resort. The child can not reasonably be expected to have anything resembling a normal quality of life expectation, so the mother aborts. So mothers just are not ready to be mothers sometimes have not the wherewithal nor temperment nor should they be forced to be mothers.

Now to pose the inverse.....how would the world be if we had the karmic fault of several million unwanted and unable to be cared for children in the world each year, and the abuse and whatnot that would be sure to occur if such were forced to birth. Not as many small ghosts perhaps but probably a whole lot more suffering children and due to circumstance probably abusers of those children and consequently hell beings as result of that.

The fact remains it is a woman choice not a mans. If they put this thing to a societal choice or democratic vote only the women should vote on it not men. Till birth it is part of a woman's body not a mans. Women only should decide that thing in a society. The idea it is a mans property rails from a time when a woman body was not her own but her husbands. A theistically framed device to allow for the fullfilling of biblical mandates to propogate in the name of god.

The world health organization surmises where it is outlawed the frequency probably approximates that where it is legal. And the nation with the lowest rates of abortion, one in Europe where the government will pay for the abortion has some common sense guidelines, and most importantly.....education on sex and family planning are provided for all in the lower grade classes. That is why it has the lowest rates.

And this will probably greatly offend some, and I will qualify this with the statement that there are many exceptions but generally.....and I volunteered at a family planning place that did perform abortion for about a year....the women who do get abortions many many of them are intellectually challlenged. I doubt seriously many of them could do anything that resembles child care or upbringing without a spouse or family help, which due to their disability are usually not available to help. Anyone who thinks only love or a compassionate heart are enough to bring up a child without harm are just not aware of how intellectually disabled people may be and still be considered normal. Those children due to this, if born.....would end up abused in some fashion...no doubt in my mind. Considering those womens circumstance it is their only option. Crack addicts, junkies alcoholics and others, perhaps with overt mental illness or close to disabled status intellectual capacity wise....they simply do not have what it takes to parent, generally.

You want to stop abortions and really lower the rate of abortions....push for family planning and sex education in grade schools. Not going to happen though....that conflicts with some fundamentalist theist beliefs. The american mentatality....outlaw, put in jail, attack in war, or protect with weaponry....never is considered tryng to remove the cause of anything. Truly a dull populace.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: No Killing

Postby Will » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:01 am

Ron: You want to stop abortions and really lower the rate of abortions....push for family planning and sex education in grade schools.


You have not been paying attention Ron. In the USA family planning & sex ed has been part of grade schools for 40 years or so. Guess what, the abortion rate is still about the same.

But I was just pointing out the karmic effects of abortion.

If you think the planet cannot sustain more people - how about more puppies or kitties or old people or fill-in-the-blank? Just kill them all off so we (aka "society") will not be bothered by any more stress. No thanks, I prefer to encourage life, even if it is unpleasant, unplanned, and unattractive to some.
Revealing one essence: this means the inherently pure, complete, luminous essence, which is pure of its own nature. -- Fa-tsang
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Re: No Killing

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:34 am

That's really not true.

As regards population control....why do some people always equate population control with killing other people or other beings?

Population control involves not having unwanted children nor children you cannot properly care for, hence the term family planning, which is to plan for a family not just randomly have one. Buddhists have no mandate to populate the world nor be fruitful nor multiply.
They can if they want to certainly...but there is no religious requirement. The idea the world is a infinate resource adaptable to any situation a creator decides is simply not a Buddhist view, but is a theist view of several popular faiths.

I sort of expect this type of talk on a theist board but am a bit surprised to see it here. Of course there is nothing wrong with expressing views and such on things but the idea the US has comparable family planning education and sex education to other countries in Europe is just silly. Availability of pregnancy control supplies and pregnancy control drugs provided free by governments are also a factor seemingly.

The Chinese encourage births of only one child to most by a system of taxation increases. In the US tax benefit is provided by more children. The Chinese approach has nothing to do with killing.

The US's abortion rate to my dim recollection was something close to twice that of the Netherlands.
The countries with the lowest rates simply provide more in the way of education...WHO has explored this issue and that is their findings.

Easter island serves as good example of a expectation of infinate resources in a finate

Why exactly would a Buddhist want to always encourage more life anyway? Of course being human is most beneficial for spiritual advancement but if you cannot find food to eat or must work all waking hours due to to many people and to few resources what chance for the spiritual is there?

As regards karma I explain how having unwanted children by unprepared and unable to provide single mothers may generate equally bad effect.

Here is a excerpt from a study done to ascertain the very low level of abortions in the Netherlands. While the study is dated the rate continues to be very low comparitively...

"The strong acceptance of family planning was influenced by changing values regarding sexuality and the family, the transition from an agricultural to a modern industrial society, rapid economic growth, declining influence of the churches on daily life, introduction of modern mass media and the increased general educational level. The introduction of modern contraceptives (mainly the pill and contraceptive sterilization) was stimulated by a strong voluntary family planning movement, fear for overpopulation, a positive role of GPs, and the public health insurance system. A reduction of unwanted pregnancies has been accomplished through successful strategies for the prevention of teenage pregnancy (including sex education, open discussions on sexuality in mass media, educational campaigns and low barrier services) as well as through wide acceptance of sterilization. The Dutch experience with family planning shows the following characteristics: a strong wish to reduce reliance on abortion, ongoing sexual and contraceptive education related to the actual experiences of the target groups, and low barrier family planning services.


So not to mislead....there are multiple factors sex education being but one of them, but one it indeed is.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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