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 Post subject: Marihuana and meditation
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Hey i have been smoking marihuana since im 15 and now im 22. I have started meditating about 7 months ago and everything is going fine but i have reached a point where i had realized that i really need to stop smoking weed or at least drasticly slow down the consumption rate in order to improve better and faster. The mindfullness has drasticly reduce the "wanting" part of the addiction but still i cant seem to not smoke when someone lights one up around me.

Any advice from people who have passed trough this situation?. This is not a big deal since i know that in time i will end up givint up ( as a natural result from the path that i have taken ) but i want the short and quick version.

Thanks a lot!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Put yourself in a position where you aren't around it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:01 pm 
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TaTa wrote:
The mindfullness has drasticly reduce the "wanting" part of the addiction but still i cant seem to not smoke when someone lights one up around me.


Avoid people who smoke herb.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:52 pm 
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I was afraid you would said that. Unfortunatly im not willing to do that because they are my very good friends and they are really, REALLY good people. Maybe some meditation advice?? Ive heard from shinzen young(theravada/zen/shingon teacher) that after a body scan reatreat his addiction kind of vanish. Im not thinking something that quick but maybe some technic that will help with that? Allready mindfullness has helped a lot. Maybe i just have to stand strong with my desicion, it cant be that hard since the "craving" part when i dont do it isnt there anymore.

Thanks a lot, ill let you know how it went


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Well, the people I used to hang with are still really good friends, I just don't spend every day chilling and puffing with them like I once did.
For me that is easy because they live 10 miles away, but proximity would be an issue if they lived in the same house as me.

Best Wishes, I hope you find a way to resolve this. :smile:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:06 pm 
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This is good and simple advice,just avoid people who smoke weed, although at your age that may not be so easy. Am I wrong in assuming that you are probably the only one out of your peers who meditates? I remember when I used to be big into smoking, I was literally high all the time. If I had to go to the store I would get high first; going to the post office, get high first; going to the dentist, get high first... I know a lot of people who are still stuck in this cycle. Herb can seem like a pretty harmless substance, and in a way it is. If your serious about meditation and the path of practice, though, you are going to have to stop smoking at some point if you want any results. For me the positive changes and equanimity that I gained through practice were far more appealing than the constant fog of being stoned. Are you part of any lineage or have you just started meditating on your own? Maybe it would be good if you could hook up with a local Buddhist group in your area. You should also let your friends know your decision. If your truly addicted, which I doubt you are, then there is no easy way out of it, but it is possible. I overcame a heavy heroin habit (which, by the way pot can definately lead to) so you are welcome to contace me if you need any advice, although I am definately not the best example to follow, unless you want to know what not to do! Anyway, good luck and keep up the practice, it is the most worthwhile thing that you could ever do with your very short time in this world.

Troy


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Tata, change is already happening. Don't force it, don't abandon friends.

I personally treat marijuana as my friend. I will never overuse it, like I wont overuse friends, and I never use it when people are around. Honest and open interaction, not a way to laugh more. Sometimes, we don't "see" each other for months, sometimes we need to "talk" right away. Treat it seriously, not like a laughing gas, because it deserves good treating, like a friend. Without respect, you wont receive it back.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:25 pm 
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I am not so sure that this is sound advice, Oushi. Telling someone not to abandon their addictions because their addictions are their friends doesn't make much sense to me. I am sure that our experiences with drugs have been quite different. Drugs led me down a very dark and dangerous path. This certaintly is not a universal experience. You can live a decent and safe life while using any intoxicant in moderation. Drug use is bound to create obstacles on the spiritual path, though. It seems as though TaTa has already come to this conclusion and I believe the OP was looking for advice on how to stop their drug habit. When you are on the path it is important to know what to accept and what to abandon. There are things that will help us and things that will hurt us. I know that the Natural State is beyond all of this, but until you can abide in it 24/7 then you are still subject to karmic conditioning. I am no Dzogchen master, but I have read a bit of Longchenpa myself. I am not critisizing anyone for doing anything, that is not my business. I hope you do not take offense Oushi.

So TaTa: drugs are stupid and a waste of time. There, now you know.

Troy


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:19 pm 
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CrawfordHollow wrote:
So TaTa: drugs are stupid and a waste of time. There, now you know.

Sound advice from someone who knows.

I agree that it is best to give it up entirely. But if you feel you must smoke, try keeping your intake to an absolute minimum. I do this when I am in the company of people drinking wine.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:54 pm 
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I started a thread about this in the Dharma-free-for All. Its an interesting subject and an important topic to discuss. If anyone has any thoughts about this please post in the new thread. Anyway, I hope your friends can be supportive of you TaTa. If you post your locale, then someone here may be able to direct you to a Dharma center nearby.

All the best,
Troy


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:28 pm 
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CrawfordHollow wrote:
I am not so sure that this is sound advice, Oushi. Telling someone not to abandon their addictions because their addictions are their friends doesn't make much sense to me. I am sure that our experiences with drugs have been quite different. Drugs led me down a very dark and dangerous path. This certaintly is not a universal experience. You can live a decent and safe life while using any intoxicant in moderation. Drug use is bound to create obstacles on the spiritual path, though. It seems as though TaTa has already come to this conclusion and I believe the OP was looking for advice on how to stop their drug habit. When you are on the path it is important to know what to accept and what to abandon. There are things that will help us and things that will hurt us. I know that the Natural State is beyond all of this, but until you can abide in it 24/7 then you are still subject to karmic conditioning. I am no Dzogchen master, but I have read a bit of Longchenpa myself. I am not critisizing anyone for doing anything, that is not my business. I hope you do not take offense Oushi.

So TaTa: drugs are stupid and a waste of time. There, now you know.

Troy

No offence taken, not at all. I just have a different approach to the subject, and my suggestion was aiming to help with addiction. Those forces are more powerful then people think they are. Unfortunately we lack shamans in the society, and this role was not a drug dealer. Awareness is shallow, many mistakes done, no magic words to undone them. Fire is also a friend, although it can burn.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:27 pm 
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oushi wrote:
I personally treat marijuana as my friend....Treat it seriously, not like a laughing gas, because it deserves good treating, like a friend.


well put. i have often been puzzled by people who reject the casual use of the weed. i think it is because most of the people who are against it don't know anything about it. when i first became interested in buddhism and became aware of the buddhist quest to live in the "here and now", i thought "hmmm.... ignore the past and the future because they don't exist, live in the present moment and be very aware of the "now".... sounds like how i look at the world when i am high."
of course, the more i read and learned, i became aware that the buddha was not a big fan of "toxins" that alter the mind.
so there is that to take into consideration, but i do still think pot is a great tool in helping to get focused (or un-focused). it should be taken seriously and i don't understand why there are so many against it's occasional use.
personally, i don't smoke it every day. maybe a couple of times a week, and never to the point where i am "baked" or "silly", just enough to let my mind settle comfortably into the here & now. and i am in no way trying to advocate anyone else useing it, i am simply saying if used properly, it can be a great tool.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:25 pm 
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chickenman wrote:
i don't smoke it every day. maybe a couple of times a week

:lol:
chickenman wrote:
just enough to let my mind settle comfortably into the here & now

You may not know how valuable this experience is. Any revelations during such a sitting?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:43 pm 
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oushi wrote:
You may not know how valuable this experience is. Any revelations during such a sitting?


nothing i would call a "revelation" (other that the usual revelations). i find i am able to "stay" in the here & now longer when a little "high". durring "normal" meditation, i catch myself in moments of actual "reality" but as soon as i get there, my monkey mind says "look !!! you are really "here" now", and the shock of that realization brings me back to the physical world.
durring a sitting aided by the hemp, i do not realize myself leaving the material world as quickly and can therefor stay in reality for longer periods of time, if that makes any sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:21 pm 
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chickenman wrote:
nothing i would call a "revelation" (other that the usual revelations)

Some people have the ability to release great amount of creativity during such a sitting, but its rare and often needs guidance. Interesting topic anyway.
Staying here and now is developed by not stirring the mind, that is why some find it easier after hemp.
Quote:
"look !!! you are really "here" now"

Investigate that event! Who is it, what is he doing, whats his role, and behavior? He/it is described in many sacred texts as watchman, thief, or snake who is stirring the mind. Thoughts are effortlessly flowing toward here and now, but every now and then he appears, stops in the middle of a current, and goes upstream. Surprisingly, to get ride of him, you need to let him do it and just relax.
Stay there as long as you can, its getting easier with every moment.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:19 pm 
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I used to (grow and) smoke, drink lots (hell, my family owned an ouzo distillery), pop any pill that crossed my path, trip, snort, you name it.

It's all just bullshit distractions, addiction to experiences and merely (reduces mindfulness and) clouds your mind. And it's really expensive. Take a moment to add up how much money you spend on it all and consider how you could spend it doing much more interesting and positive things. Consider tobacco for example. At 3 euro a packet per day that's about 1100euro a year. That's two months wages at the current minimum wage here in Greece!!!

For me it took a change of social scene and an avid interest in looking after my body and mind (martial arts and Buddhist meditation) in order to cut loose.

Hate to say it but bad company is actually a big factor. Funny thing is when you stop smoking, but hang out with smokers, you begin to see how absolutely BORING and STUPID they are when they are bent. They think they are so smart and deep but actually... Then you think to yourself: "Shiiiiiittt... I was that stupid and boring too and I didn't even notice it!"

After a while it doesn't even cross your mind to get wasted. I now find the idea of getting wasted completely and utterly boring. My mind is WAY more interesting when it is lucid then when it is clouded.

Good luck people! Keep up with being straight, it is 100% worth the effort!
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:22 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
I used to (grow and) smoke, drink lots (hell, my family owned an ouzo distillery), pop any pill that crossed my path, trip, snort, you name it.

It's all just bullshit distractions, addiction to experiences and merely (reduces mindfulness and) clouds your mind. And it's really expensive. Take a moment to add up how much money you spend on it all and consider how you could spend it doing much more interesting and positive things. Consider tobacco for example. At 3 euro a packet per day that's about 1100euro a year. That's two months wages at the current minimum wage here in Greece!!!

For me it took a change of social scene and an avid interest in looking after my body and mind (martial arts and Buddhist meditation) in order to cut loose.

Hate to say it but bad company is actually a big factor. Funny thing is when you stop smoking, but hang out with smokers, you begin to see how absolutely BORING and STUPID they are when they are bent. They think they are so smart and deep but actually... Then you think to yourself: "Shiiiiiittt... I was that stupid and boring too and I didn't even notice it!"

After a while it doesn't even cross your mind to get wasted. I now find the idea of getting wasted completely and utterly boring. My mind is WAY more interesting when it is lucid then when it is clouded.

Good luck people! Keep up with being straight, it is 100% worth the effort!
:namaste:

Greg, I'm sure you understand that psychoactives affect people differently. Just because drugs are boring to you doesn't mean they're boring to others. Look at this artist's self portraits under the influence of a cornucopia of various drugs - http://cultso.com/artist-takes-every-dr ... -each-use/. Boring would be one of the last possible ways I would describe this stuff.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Personally, I have a lot of experience with high meditation, so I'd like to offer my opinion. Yes, pot has helped me easily become absorbed in the present and drop discursive thought, it has even made visualizations more vivid and allowed me to feel the energy of mantras in a very direct and powerful way. However, it has the disadvantage that when I become distracted, its harder to notice that I am distracted and right myself. I imagine this is linked with short-term memory impairment. I've had similar effects with LSD, although that has let me get even deeper into non-discursive mental patterns even quicker. But it has the same short-term memory problem of eventually becoming distracted and not being able to fix that as quickly as when sober.

But, the even bigger problem is that reliance on anything external is contrived and ultimately a crutch. It's best to figure out how to do this on your own, because you'll eventually have to if you want any realization.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:10 am 
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tomamundsen wrote:
Personally, I have a lot of experience with high meditation, so I'd like to offer my opinion. Yes, pot has helped me easily become absorbed in the present and drop discursive thought, it has even made visualizations more vivid and allowed me to feel the energy of mantras in a very direct and powerful way. However, it has the disadvantage that when I become distracted, its harder to notice that I am distracted and right myself. I imagine this is linked with short-term memory impairment. I've had similar effects with LSD, although that has let me get even deeper into non-discursive mental patterns even quicker. But it has the same short-term memory problem of eventually becoming distracted and not being able to fix that as quickly as when sober.

But, the even bigger problem is that reliance on anything external is contrived and ultimately a crutch. It's best to figure out how to do this on your own, because you'll eventually have to if you want any realization.


Interesting. Weed gives me doubt, doubt gives me thoughts. Everything seems to "foggy" when im high. in my case the cool thing about high meditation is that if a stay with it long enough i get lots of purification, or at leas that's what i feel.


An update on my situation: It turns out that giving up weed is not that hard when you have mindfulness and equanimity XD. A month without smoking with little effort. I would never have thought about it a couple of months ago ;)

Thank you all


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:49 am 
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tomamundsen wrote:
Greg, I'm sure you understand that psychoactives affect people differently. Just because drugs are boring to you doesn't mean they're boring to others. Look at this artist's self portraits under the influence of a cornucopia of various drugs - http://cultso.com/artist-takes-every-dr ... -each-use/. Boring would be one of the last possible ways I would describe this stuff.
You misread what I said, I did not say that the experiences are boring I said that people high on drugs make for boring company.

Experiences are interesting wheteher you are on drugs or not if you allow your mind to be drawn to them. Even the most banal of experiences can set off a phantasmagorical chain of thought and analysis dragging the mind to the furthest reaches of existence. And it is this, this experience of meandering analytical thought, projection into the past and future, that is the opposite of meditation.
:namaste:

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