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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:09 am 
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catmoon wrote:
GarcherLancelot wrote:
Rakshasa wrote:

In my experience, animals show a very great deal of mindfulness. Observe cats, leopards, Tigers etc, and they never can be caught off guard!

Hmmm,interesting,perhaps this is one of the methods they get better rebirths after thier deaths?. ..


I doubt it. There is such a thing as the mindfulness of the sniper, and I'm pretty sure that one leads downwards.

Well, they are not only mindful to hunt or also to prevent being hunted,the latter might be conducive to them...I don't know. .. :yinyang: . ..


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:20 pm 
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I am a wildlife fan and have read numerous tales of Tiger and Leopard hunting in famous hunters (and later conservationists) like Jim Corbett and Kenneth Anderson. Men who have spent time in the jungles know it very firmly that if you are in the domain of the Tiger, he is the one who sees you first. Often you do not even know that you are being observed by a Tiger or a Leopard (although their intense stare is "noticed" even from behind by experienced hunters) but they are there. Their mindfulness and concentration are legendary.

Also, animals also display volitional compassion (or even vengeance and hatred) which does contribute to Karma (either wholesome, unwholesome or neutral). A famous documentary on a Leopard from Africa shows that the Leopardess tries to caress a newborn Baboon like its own cub. Man-eating Tigers were known for their vengeance. And if you read books like "Tiger - A story of vengeance" by John Vaillant, you would see that often these man-eating Tigers "stalked and hunted" their hunters as if seeking revenge.

So I dont subscribe to the theory that animals do not create Karma. Even Jataka tales or early Buddhist canon speaks of various instances where animals attained merit when they saw Buddha. A very famous Taiwanese monk called "Fruit monk" was regularly offered fruits by monkeys while he practiced alone in the forest. Of course, there are some monks who can literally talk to animals or understand their language.

I dont think an average human's state of mindfulness is superior to animals (especially the felines).


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:47 am 
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Rakshasa wrote:
I am a wildlife fan and have read numerous tales of Tiger and Leopard hunting in famous hunters (and later conservationists) like Jim Corbett and Kenneth Anderson. Men who have spent time in the jungles know it very firmly that if you are in the domain of the Tiger, he is the one who sees you first. Often you do not even know that you are being observed by a Tiger or a Leopard (although their intense stare is "noticed" even from behind by experienced hunters) but they are there. Their mindfulness and concentration are legendary.

Also, animals also display volitional compassion (or even vengeance and hatred) which does contribute to Karma (either wholesome, unwholesome or neutral). A famous documentary on a Leopard from Africa shows that the Leopardess tries to caress a newborn Baboon like its own cub. Man-eating Tigers were known for their vengeance. And if you read books like "Tiger - A story of vengeance" by John Vaillant, you would see that often these man-eating Tigers "stalked and hunted" their hunters as if seeking revenge.

So I dont subscribe to the theory that animals do not create Karma. Even Jataka tales or early Buddhist canon speaks of various instances where animals attained merit when they saw Buddha. A very famous Taiwanese monk called "Fruit monk" was regularly offered fruits by monkeys while he practiced alone in the forest. Of course, there are some monks who can literally talk to animals or understand their language.

I dont think an average human's state of mindfulness is superior to animals (especially the felines).



What?they attained merit just by seeing Buddha?. .. :yinyang: :yinyang: :yinyang:


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Well, not exactly. The animals did some "action", bowed to Buddha or helped or something. There is a story of how Buddha tamed a wild Buffalo
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/lob/lob48.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:47 pm 
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GarcherLancelot wrote:
Seishin wrote:
It's about having your mind on what your are doing while you are doing it. So while you're driving, your mind is on driving. If you need to plan for dinner, plan for dinner, but try not to let your thoughts wonder needlessly. The best place to start is on your breath whilst meditating. This is how I understand it :smile:

Gassho,
Seishin.


I got my driving license but haven't really practise my driving skills yet,so is it even possible to drive wthout putting your mind or driving,that sounds a bit scary to me haha. ..And how are we suppose to benefit from "living in the moment"?. ..(IMO "living in the present" is not equivalent to "living in the moment" ,the former phrase seems a bit yolo-ish(现在) ,mindfulness as far as I understand is 当下. ..)'''



The more you live in the moment the more you will understand that nothing is conceptual and that that is nothing more than freedom.You will begin to see how your expereince is beyond any limitation.
Concept means limitation therefore is samsara.
With time when people will talk to you you will start to see how they always come from a particular point of view,reference and they are bound by their conceptual frameworks.
You will see through this and that is the begining of something good.

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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:47 am 
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alpha wrote:
The more you live in the moment the more you will understand that nothing is conceptual and that that is nothing more than freedom.You will begin to see how your expereince is beyond any limitation.
Concept means limitation therefore is samsara.
With time when people will talk to you you will start to see how they always come from a particular point of view,reference and they are bound by their conceptual frameworks.
You will see through this and that is the begining of something good.


I can see how what you say is valuable, and I agree, but isn't it also true that Buddhism is also a conceptual framework?


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:18 am 
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Radman622 wrote:

I can see how what you say is valuable, and I agree, but isn't it also true that Buddhism is also a conceptual framework?


Yes but there is more to it than that. It might be more accurate to say that Buddhism is a conceptual framework that points the mind in nonconceptual directions.

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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:16 pm 
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I read some Zen teachings that seemed to imply this, for example, a master would use his finger to point to the moon, and say "Is my finger the moon?" Of course it is not, it can only direct someone to the moon. The point of course being that Buddhism is not really "the path" it just points one to the path. The idea being that "concepts" are meaningless not because you shouldn't ponder or practice, or follow a path, but because of emptiness, words and concepts are inherently meaningless.

Is my understanding correct, or am I mistaken? :)

:namaste: -Conrad


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:18 am 
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Well there's no inherent meaning in any given set of words. So interpretation is always possible. But this does not mean meaning is entirely absent either. Sometimes concepts transfer from mind to mind pretty accurately, and this is usually manifested as an increase in the abilities of the student.

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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:23 am 
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catmoon wrote:
Well there's no inherent meaning in any given set of words. So interpretation is always possible. But this does not mean meaning is entirely absent either. Sometimes concepts transfer from mind to mind pretty accurately, and this is usually manifested as an increase in the abilities of the student.


Ah!
Metaphor.
When we are sick, we can get a prescription for a medicine. We go with that to buy the medicine but note with care the important name ( to get the right medicine) written on the prescription. Then by the medicines is a paper for the use of them. This we can read and read, we can even use a fluor pen what is for us important about the medicine. Then we can make copies of the paper as well. But very busy so, the medicine remains untouched and state of being turns even more miserable. The actually taking of the healing pill or practice is recommended, not to remain untouched. :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:05 pm 
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You know, I have to say, one of the things I love most about Buddhism is the absolutely great metaphors. They have really expanded my mind, and the way I look at things. XD

The other day, I came up with a Buddhism-esque metaphor on my own to describe the difference between attachment and love.


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:43 pm 
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So do you guys more or less pay attneiton throughout your entire day or something?.. .


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:31 pm 
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GarcherLancelot wrote:
So do you guys more or less pay attneiton throughout your entire day or something?.. .

Quite the opposite. Attention is paying itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:38 pm 
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oushi wrote:
GarcherLancelot wrote:
So do you guys more or less pay attneiton throughout your entire day or something?.. .

Quite the opposite. Attention is paying itself.


Uhm....ok lets get to the point,I don;t get what are you saying lol haha.. .


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:43 pm 
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If you try to pay attention all day long, you will end up exhausted. If you are not trying to pay attention, nor suppress it, it will go on its own. The problem here lies is the delusion that knowing is contrived and we have to put effort into it. Knowing don't have to be contrive, is not contrived, and cannot be contrived. Don't try to change, just be mindful. But to be mindful, you don't have to do anything, as you are the mindfulness itself. Just be, without trying to be this or that. And don't worry, there will still be understanding, action, engagement. You will go to work, or school, eat, sleep... in the same way, just without the burden of responsibility. Sensations may arise of you not understanding what is going on, but you will see that everything goes fine anyways. Most of the time it will go much better then before. People lack this self trust and this fear it understandable. I had such a sensation when I was in my working place. I am IT specialist, so a looooot of understanding is required. To my surprise, although I had no idea what I was talking about (it just came out of my mouth without the need of contriving it) everyone was amazed how technically precise I was.

This momentary "mindfulness" that jumps in from time to time and tries to control and direct, is the only moment of delusion.

Clear now?

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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:44 am 
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oushi wrote:
If you try to pay attention all day long, you will end up exhausted. If you are not trying to pay attention, nor suppress it, it will go on its own. The problem here lies is the delusion that knowing is contrived and we have to put effort into it. Knowing don't have to be contrive, is not contrived, and cannot be contrived. Don't try to change, just be mindful. But to be mindful, you don't have to do anything, as you are the mindfulness itself. Just be, without trying to be this or that. And don't worry, there will still be understanding, action, engagement. You will go to work, or school, eat, sleep... in the same way, just without the burden of responsibility. Sensations may arise of you not understanding what is going on, but you will see that everything goes fine anyways. Most of the time it will go much better then before. People lack this self trust and this fear it understandable. I had such a sensation when I was in my working place. I am IT specialist, so a looooot of understanding is required. To my surprise, although I had no idea what I was talking about (it just came out of my mouth without the need of contriving it) everyone was amazed how technically precise I was.

This momentary "mindfulness" that jumps in from time to time and tries to control and direct, is the only moment of delusion.

Clear now?


I would start daydreaming or worrying about this or that.. .


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:59 am 
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GarcherLancelot wrote:
I would start daydreaming or worrying about this or that.. .

Yes, it's all about letting it be, so it can effortlessly settle in here and now. There is nothing wrong in daydreaming or worrying, making a big deal out of it, is. We can clearly see from your statement, that you are picking and choosing, and that's the only disease of your mind. But those are just words. Take one sitting and apply this method. Treat every event that occurs as it would perfectly fit the whole picture. Nothing to change, just rest. And you will see. There is a reason why your mind is bombarding you with thoughts. By rejecting those, you certainly wont find and remove the cause of it.
People are trying to clear the muddy water of mind by stopping all movement. It would work out for a lake, but not for a river! What will clear the river? Or rather what happens when you try to stop it? It gets even more muddy.

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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:03 pm 
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One of my favorite talks on "mindfulness". It means more than just "going with the flow" or "awareness". A really good bank robber can go with the flow and have great awareness, but he certainly is not practicing right mindfulness. :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:22 pm 
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seeker242 wrote:
A really good bank robber can go with the flow and have great awareness, but he certainly is not practicing right mindfulness.

Have you ever did such a thing (bank robbing), or at least met such a person? What is the point of imagining such an weird thing and judging it afterwards?

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 Post subject: Re: Mindfulness
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:25 pm 
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oushi wrote:
GarcherLancelot wrote:
I would start daydreaming or worrying about this or that.. .

Yes, it's all about letting it be, so it can effortlessly settle in here and now. There is nothing wrong in daydreaming or worrying, making a big deal out of it, is. We can clearly see from your statement, that you are picking and choosing, and that's the only disease of your mind. But those are just words. Take one sitting and apply this method. Treat every event that occurs as it would perfectly fit the whole picture. Nothing to change, just rest. And you will see. There is a reason why your mind is bombarding you with thoughts. By rejecting those, you certainly wont find and remove the cause of it.
People are trying to clear the muddy water of mind by stopping all movement. It would work out for a lake, but not for a river! What will clear the river? Or rather what happens when you try to stop it? It gets even more muddy.

Ok then in this case what is the difference between mindfulness and "living in the future,past or present"?.. .I am not controlling my thoughts like I am paying a lot of attention and thought-stopping over nothing but just observe and more aware of whatever I am doing.. .


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