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Israel, Palestine and the Holy Grail of Peace - Dhamma Wheel

Israel, Palestine and the Holy Grail of Peace

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Dan74
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Israel, Palestine and the Holy Grail of Peace

Postby Dan74 » Thu May 12, 2011 3:55 am

I only hope that you are right, alan, but I suspect it is not so simple. The current Israeli government is the most hawkish in recent memory and least concerned with a just settlement with the Palestinians. American troops are still stationed in many Muslim countries and are seen as the occupiers. The public image of the US in the Middle East (and in developing countries as a whole) is really poor. Also many terrorist cells are widely believed to be autonomous. Of course grievances against the US are only part of the problem.

Obama gave a great speech in Cairo but this has to be seen to be followed by great actions and a radical shift of policy from what is widely perceived to be a strong partisan (pro-Israeli) stance. Israel's continuing right to exist should be supported I agree, but not its continuing occupation and colonization. Of course it is not easy for Obama - Muslims and Arabs enjoy very little support in the US, but hopefully this will change and a more balanced approach can be found. Personally I believe it will be better for all in the long run, including Israelis.
Last edited by Ben on Sat May 14, 2011 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Split from Osama bin Ladin is dead
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christopher:::
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Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby christopher::: » Thu May 12, 2011 4:05 am

You both make good points, Dan and Alan. I think the key thing is there is a window of opportunity that's opened right now. It's up the the US and Israeli leadership to take advantage of that, and work to forge an equitable peace that assures Israel's existance and addresses the very real grievances of the Islamic world, or let the moment slip by...
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

alan
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby alan » Thu May 12, 2011 4:30 am

Or, the Islamic world can deal with their own problems, rather than blaming everything on Israel and the U.S.
How about that?

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christopher:::
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby christopher::: » Thu May 12, 2011 5:08 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

alan
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby alan » Fri May 13, 2011 3:05 am

U.S. military presence in Saudi was drastically reduced several years ago.

Not much we can do to stop the Israelis. Especially if they are under constant siege.
Time for the Arabs to grow up. First on the agenda is to stop blaming their problems on everyone else.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri May 13, 2011 3:50 am

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Dan74
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby Dan74 » Fri May 13, 2011 10:14 am

Well... it is not the "Arab people who are oppressed" but the Palestinians who are under occupation. Do you think they should've just left their homes and moved to some Arab country instead of making all this noise?

I am surprised that you seem to conflate these things, David.

All I try to say here is that it is not a good situation and should be resolved with good will from both sides.

As for "Arabs blaming other people for their problems" I guess there is a strong perception that the US has an anti-Arab pro-Israeli bias. Of course this doesn't make it right to go and kill but here we are.
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David N. Snyder
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri May 13, 2011 3:32 pm

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christopher:::
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby christopher::: » Fri May 13, 2011 4:00 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri May 13, 2011 4:27 pm

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christopher:::
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby christopher::: » Fri May 13, 2011 4:56 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri May 13, 2011 5:07 pm

Hi Chris,

A two-State solution is best and hopefully will alleviate many of the problems in the area.

Many of those settlements were erected without the support of Israel and get bulldozed by the Israeli government.

Israel may be in fact helping to create an independent Palestinian nation with their wall. I am opposed to walls, but the de facto result may be a border line being created? We'll see, I guess.

It would be kind of hard for Israel to argue that the land on the 'other side' of the wall they built belongs to them.
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alan
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby alan » Sat May 14, 2011 2:28 am

Arabs could have solved this problem many years ago. But their insistence on blaming others, not dealing with their own faults, and resorting to violence has pushed Israel to the far right.
Fact of life.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby tiltbillings » Sat May 14, 2011 2:30 am


alan
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby alan » Sat May 14, 2011 2:34 am

True. But Israel was content to be tiny until June 5, 1967.

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby alan » Sat May 14, 2011 2:41 am

To be clear for those not up on history--Egypt, Jordan and Syria massed troops to attack Israel on that day in 1967. They had the desire to wipe Israel off the map. Were they thinking of the poor Palestinians? No. They just wanted to kill Jews.
Fact of life.

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christopher:::
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby christopher::: » Sat May 14, 2011 3:51 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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christopher:::
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby christopher::: » Sat May 14, 2011 4:07 am

Last edited by christopher::: on Sat May 14, 2011 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat May 14, 2011 4:16 am

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christopher:::
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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead

Postby christopher::: » Sat May 14, 2011 4:22 am

Yes, Jerusalem plus all those places on the map you provided where Israelis have gone deep into West Bank 1967 territory (green line in your map) building walls, seizing land, building settlements. I think Saeb Erekat and a long line of Palestinian representatives before him have been clear about that.

If Israel agreed to go back to the green line, which would mean effectively abandoning a great number of Jewish settlements, I bet something could be worked out with Jeruselum, probably needing International help.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009


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