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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Hi,Were Ole Nydahi and Trungpa rinpoche enemies?I have heard from students from both men that they did not get along and were infact enemies,is this true?surely enemy is a strong word for anyone practicing Dharma?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:25 am 
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sorry i mean Ole Nydahl

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:28 am 
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Stop thinking so much and go sit. It is irreverent to your practice. Think of suffering. Go sit.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:18 pm 
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illusionsgame wrote:
Stop thinking so much and go sit. It is irreverent to your practice. Think of suffering. Go sit.


How can you say so? Who are you, to speak to Martin like that? His teacher? Certainly not. You don't know anything about the background of this question, do you? Maybe Martin is looking for a teacher, and maybe he is ckecking out if DW or Shambhala is the right place for him. Even if he's only asking out of curiosity, you still don't have the right to forbid him to do so.

You are supposed to check a teacher for up to twelve years, and one method of checking a potential teacher is to ask others what they know about him. There is nothing wrong about this question.

I'm sorry, if this post sounds pretty aggressive, but hell, dude (or dudette), you are trying to forbid somebody to ask a question. What are you thinking?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:35 pm 
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ReasonAndRhyme wrote:
illusionsgame wrote:
Stop
thinking so much and go sit. It is irreverent to your practice. Think
of suffering. Go sit.


How can you say so? Who are you, to speak to Martin like that? His
teacher? Certainly not. You don't know anything about the background of
this question, do you? Maybe Martin is looking for a teacher, and maybe
he is ckecking out if DW or Shambhala is the right place for him. Even
if he's only asking out of curiosity, you still don't have the right to
forbid him to do so.

You are supposed to check a teacher for up to twelve years, and one
method of checking a potential teacher is to ask others what they know
about him. There is nothing wrong about this question.

I'm sorry, if this post sounds pretty aggressive, but hell, dude (or
dudette), you are trying to forbid somebody to ask a question.
What are you thinking?

Hi RAR,thats exactly my reason for asking,im considering which group to visit, DW or Shambala,so im curious about there founders and their relationship to each other

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:59 pm 
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The relationship between the two founders should have no bearing whatsoever on your decision regarding which of the two groups to visit.

Comparing the two teachers (one of whom is dead, mind you) is probably more valid rather than looking for dirt on their relationship.

I would recommend you vist both groups and decide which you will "join" based on an objective analysis of your experiences during the visits.

Both groups and their teachers have their controversies and their strong points.
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:42 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
The relationship
between the two founders should have no bearing whatsoever on your
decision regarding which of the two groups to visit.

Comparing the two teachers (one of whom is dead, mind you) is probably
more valid rather than looking for dirt on their relationship.

I would recommend you vist both groups and decide which you will "join"
based on an objective analysis of your experiences during the visits.

Both groups and their teachers have their controversies and their strong
points.
:namaste:

hi,yes i agree with you,but say in the future i wanted to practice with both groups,would this even be possibe,thats i why i want to know is there any bad blood,do the 2 groups co exist peacefully and respect each other?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:46 pm 
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I have contact with Lama and lay sangha members from both "sides" of the Karmapa fiasco and it has never been an issue with my practice.

Try not to let yourself get dragged into the petty interpersonal politics and you will also have no problem.

If you go looking for trouble you will be sure to find it. Anywhere you look! :tongue:
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:50 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
I have contact
with Lama and lay sangha members from both "sides" of the Karmapa fiasco
and it has never been an issue with my practice.

Try not to let yourself get dragged into the petty interpersonal
politics and you will also have no problem.

If you go looking for trouble you will be sure to find it. Anywhere you
look! :tongue:
:namaste:

well i have zero interest in political conflicts,i just want to practice with a group that feels the same,and give one freedom.i will vist and see what happens,cheers

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Hi Martin,

It seems to me your intentions are right. You might wish to visit both centers and see for yourself. And some other centers too!

enjoy your journey

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:54 pm 
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Jikan wrote:
Hi Martin,

It seems to me your intentions are right. You might wish to visit both
centers and see for yourself. And some other centers too!

enjoy your journey

Hi Jikan,thanks,i will continue to look for more lay practice groups in my area as well,all the best

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:13 pm 
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I have personally not heard of any conflict between the 2. But I have not been around for long. I have only heard Ole Nydahl mention Trungpa once at his teachings, and he spoke of him respectfully.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:08 pm 
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My sources could be inaccurrate,im just concerned about studying with a group that has a vendetta against another.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:16 pm 
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martin123 wrote:
My sources could be inaccurrate,im just concerned about studying with a group that has a vendetta against another.


Probably best to avoid Ole then, he has quite a few vendettas against other groups, Buddhist or otherwise.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Stewart wrote:
martin123 wrote:
My
sources could be inaccurrate,im just concerned about studying with a
group that has a vendetta against another.


Probably best to avoid Ole then, he has quite a few vendettas against
other groups, Buddhist or otherwise.

oh, if thats true that doesn't sound great.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:46 am 
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Yes, there was an adversarial relationship between the two. Ole was banned from teaching at Trungpa's centers and institutions, fairly early on. It's well-documented, and not worth spending any time on. Of much greater importance is the atmosphere, environment, accessibility, and general "vibe" you experience at either of these organization's centers. They are both not "orthodox" Karma Kagyu centers, in the sense that the KTD, KTC, Thrangu/ Mingyur Rinpoche/Kalu Rinpoche or other High Karma Kagyu centers are--or, rather, they are far less similar than any of those are to each other.....but I'm not placing any value judgement on that statement.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:22 am 
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martin123 wrote:
oh, if thats true that doesn't sound great.
Is it true or is it just slander? viewtopic.php?f=50&t=7407&start=0
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:05 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
martin123 wrote:
oh,
if thats true that doesn't sound great.
Is it true or is it just
slander?
http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... 07&start=0
:namaste:

Thanks for the link

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:50 am 
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conebeckham wrote:
Yes, there was an adversarial relationship between the two. Ole was banned from teaching at Trungpa's centers and institutions, fairly early on. It's well-documented, and not worth spending any time on. Of much greater importance is the atmosphere, environment, accessibility, and general "vibe" you experience at either of these organization's centers. They are both not "orthodox" Karma Kagyu centers, in the sense that the KTD, KTC, Thrangu/ Mingyur Rinpoche/Kalu Rinpoche or other High Karma Kagyu centers are--or, rather, they are far less similar than any of those are to each other.....but I'm not placing any value judgement on that statement.


Just to clarify, I dunno why I said "high Karma Magyu Centers." I mean Karma Kagyu Centers founded by High Lamas. But reading the above, it sounds like I'm talking about the "High Church" or some such thing. That was not my intent.

Though my own bias, to be clear, is for more "orthodox" centers......

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:26 am 
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Both Trungpa Rinpoche and Ole Nydahl thought that Tibetan Buddhism needs to be adapted to be accessible in the West. Both changed it in their own ways, Other Kagyu teachers have been more conservative. There's a nasty argument in the Karma Kagyu over who is the real Karmapa. Ole Nydahl sided with one claimant and Trungpa Rinpoche's organization eventually sided with the other, though it stayed neutral in the controversy for a good bit.

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