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Why such a difference? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Why such a difference?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby lyndon taylor » Wed May 11, 2011 7:20 am

if the buddha wasnt god, there must be some truth he didnt speak of that perhaps later followers revealed, this obsession with "the buddha didnt say it hence it must be false" seems kind of ridiculous especially when we dont know exactly what the buddha said,

also daverupa your comment about therevada not believing in buddha nature, ive heard this widely quoted but according to the members of the local Therevada Cambodian temple ITS JUST NOT TRUE, same with the idea that therevada dont believe in rebirth, whereas mahayana do
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Dan74
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Dan74 » Wed May 11, 2011 7:29 am

_/|\_

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cooran
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby cooran » Wed May 11, 2011 7:40 am

Hey Lyndon,

Regarding BuddhaNature - here is a discussion in another thread with 104 posts and still counting:

What is Wrong with Buddha Nature
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7716

Why not read that and join in if you feel like it?

wtih metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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daverupa
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby daverupa » Wed May 11, 2011 8:34 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 11, 2011 9:12 am

:goodpost:
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Beautiful Breath
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Beautiful Breath » Wed May 11, 2011 9:41 am

...thanks for all the replies - as a point of fact I posted the same question on our sister site Dharma Wheel (they told me to buy a book :shrug: ) just thought it was ironic that I have had a huge response on here.

Anyway, I guess I am specifically concerned about the major differences (as I see them) on the Tibetan emphasis on Emptiness pretty much the only way to 'enlightenment' and the apparent lack of it in the Theravada. For instance the Tibetan schools offer a very seductive stance that only through analysis of the Emptiness of phenomena in meditation and familiarising our minds with this can we realise the Emptiness of self and thus achieve Liberation. I see that this type of approach is not used in the Theravada (I think?).

So how can we 'realise' that 2=2=4 without thinking about it? How can we realise the ultimate nature of phenomena - and our(self) - without practically and analytically identifying our delusion regarding the way things appear as opposed to how they exist?

Cheer,

BB

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retrofuturist
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 11, 2011 9:49 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Dan74
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Dan74 » Wed May 11, 2011 10:05 am

_/|\_

nobody12345
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby nobody12345 » Wed May 11, 2011 11:44 am


nobody12345
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby nobody12345 » Wed May 11, 2011 11:56 am

Do you aware what kind of flood you are supposed to cross?
What do you prefer?
The more easy and comfy raft/formula?
Or although uneasy/difficult/challenging YET the most tried and proven raft/formula?
Even in mundane matters, you would choose the latter.
Stick to the most old, tried and proven formula.
Stick to the words and direct teachings of the one and only fully Awakened One.

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Beautiful Breath
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Beautiful Breath » Wed May 11, 2011 2:53 pm

:offtopic:

...so is there a tradition in the Theravada that uses analysis (rather than bare attention) in order to undertand Emptiness (Dependent Origination)? I have a background in Tibetan practices but have errd on the side of the less flamboyant Theravada - however, I still think that a practical meditation along the following lines makes most sense to me regarding realising Emptiness:

Identify the object of negation ('self' or how it apears to my mind)

Attempt to 'find' this object (ie. in its parts outside of its parts or somewhere else - all inpossible)

Once establishing its 'unfindability' try to experience exactly how it DOES exist (ie. as a mere appearance to the mind in depemdence upon its parts)

Establish the objects Emptiness and attemp to familiarise the mind with this...



Phew...!

Does anything like that exist in the Theravada?

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daverupa
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby daverupa » Wed May 11, 2011 3:10 pm


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ground
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby ground » Wed May 11, 2011 6:10 pm


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lyndon taylor
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby lyndon taylor » Thu May 12, 2011 9:22 am

daverupa the whole comment wasnt to you, just the part about buddha nature being exclusive to mahayana, a point i disagree with,

i don't think anyone got the point of what i was saying, the point is there is TRUTH, somewhat absolute because its not wrong, and various peoples interpretation of truth of which the greatest in my mind is the buddha, but if you give infallability to the buddha you are surely contradicting the buddhas own instruction to test and question what he says, and if you listen only to the buddha and throw out all the later"buddhas" and commentators, you are denying the ability of anyone else to see truth but the buddha, and you are denying the possibility that these later commentators knew a lot more about the buddha and truth than we do today,

then we have the situation of the modern world presenting a whole set of problems unforseen in the buddhas time, if noone perceives truth but the buddha we are stuck applying BC rules to a 21st century world, things like the elimination of sexist practices and establishment of a monastic order for women based on equality, rules and punishments for randy lamas who can't keep their robes on, the buddha didnt give us the answers to all the worlds problems, he simply established methods by which we can solve todays problems, so no you can't critisise mahayana because its not all the buddhas words, and you definetly can't say tibetan buddhism is not buddhist, it was started by buddhists, all its members and leaders have been buddhist, if the buddha perceived a truth that was greater than himself, we have to believe that other people can do that too, and that buddhist teachings didnt end with the buddhas death but were just getting started
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Beautiful Breath
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Beautiful Breath » Thu May 12, 2011 3:15 pm


Kenshou
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Kenshou » Thu May 12, 2011 3:39 pm


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David N. Snyder
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu May 12, 2011 9:36 pm

Here's a nice snap-shot of some of the differences:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/snapshot02.htm
Image




nowheat
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby nowheat » Thu May 12, 2011 10:27 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby daverupa » Thu May 12, 2011 11:14 pm


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kirk5a
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Re: Why such a difference?

Postby kirk5a » Fri May 13, 2011 12:53 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230


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