Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

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Ervin
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Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:55 am

How does karma work in relation to so called Demons, Are they subject to it? And what does Buddhism say on how do Demons operate?

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby plwk » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:52 am


Ervin
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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:29 am

That says that so called Mara the demon is karma. Isn't demon a being with intelligence and karma an impersonal physical law?

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Seishin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:49 am

Early Buddhism seems to point to Mara as metaphorical. IE, our own inner demons. However, when Buddhism spread to other countries Mara was seen as an actual being. I prefer the earlier version personally.

Gassho,
Seishin

Ervin
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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:06 pm

You know what puzzles me know: Demons are evil. Mara tempted Buddha. Mara is therefore intelligent and evil.

Now, how can people call demons karma when the is good karma wich is hot exclusively evil like demons are?

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Astus » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:52 pm

There are demon-like beings in Buddhism. Mostly they are in the realm of hungry spirits and the lower heavens. These are for example the naga (aquatic serpent demons), yaksha (nature spirits), rakshasa (man-eating demons), pishacha (flesh-eating demons), kimnara (centaurs), asura (warrior gods), mahoraga (subterranean serpent demons).
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Indrajala
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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Indrajala » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:13 pm

Ervin wrote:That says that so called Mara the demon is karma. Isn't demon a being with intelligence and karma an impersonal physical law?

Thanks


There are both.

A "māra" can refer to a personal mental obstacle of sorts (kleśa-māra) while it can also refer to an intelligent being. The Māra King is a deva named Paranirmita-vaśavartin or Pāpīyan in the sixth heaven of the desire realm. There are numerous other lesser māras, demons and spirits which Astus outlined above.

These demons are not physical beings as we would normally perceive them. The word "spirit" in English might be best used to describe them. They can directly attack people and this often manifests as mental illness, but can also result in possession or in milder cases otherwise irrational impulses. People undergoing emotional trauma are especially susceptible to such possession. Both Tibetan and Indian Ayurveda diagnose and address these illnesses. Daoism and some schools of East Asian Buddhism are able to address these problems as well. Some western occult traditions like the Order of the Golden Dawn have their methods too.
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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Indrajala » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:14 pm

Seishin wrote:Early Buddhism seems to point to Mara as metaphorical. IE, our own inner demons. However, when Buddhism spread to other countries Mara was seen as an actual being. I prefer the earlier version personally.

Gassho,
Seishin


I disagree. I think the ideas of Māra and devas were there from the start. By the Buddha's own admission these beings exist.
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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:44 pm

So I can be Mara in my next life if Mara is simply a sentient being? Watch out, I am good at tempting.

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Indrajala » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:53 pm

Ervin wrote:So I can be Mara in my next life if Mara is simply a sentient being? Watch out, I am good at tempting.

Thanks


Yes.
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Seishin
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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Seishin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:57 pm

Huseng wrote: I disagree. I think the ideas of Māra and devas were there from the start. By the Buddha's own admission these beings exist.

Certainly there from the start yes. And devas yes I see as sentient beings, but I'm not too sure about Mara as a sentient being. However I'm not a scholar like yourself so it's just my thoughts. :smile:

Gassho,
Seishin.

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:03 pm

Demons are metaphorical and so is my own ego..
I fled Him, down the nights and down the days; I fled Him, down the arches of the years; I fled Him, down the labyrinthine ways, Of my own mind; and in the mist of tears, I hid from Him, and under running laughter. Up vistaed hopes I sped; And shot, precipitated, Adown Titanic glooms of chasmèd fears, From those strong Feet that followed, followed after. But with unhurrying chase, And unperturbèd pace, Deliberate speed, majestic instancy, They beat - and a Voice beat - More instant than the Feet - ‘All things betray thee, who betrayest Me.’

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:32 pm

Metaphor for what? Also please, what's the ego metaphor for?

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby deepbluehum » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:34 pm

Ervin wrote:How does karma work in relation to so called Demons, Are they subject to it? And what does Buddhism say on how do Demons operate?


Ultimately demons are your own negative emotions.

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:27 pm

Ervin wrote:Metaphor for what? Also please, what's the ego metaphor for?


For? For the path, i.e. confusion.
I fled Him, down the nights and down the days; I fled Him, down the arches of the years; I fled Him, down the labyrinthine ways, Of my own mind; and in the mist of tears, I hid from Him, and under running laughter. Up vistaed hopes I sped; And shot, precipitated, Adown Titanic glooms of chasmèd fears, From those strong Feet that followed, followed after. But with unhurrying chase, And unperturbèd pace, Deliberate speed, majestic instancy, They beat - and a Voice beat - More instant than the Feet - ‘All things betray thee, who betrayest Me.’

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby kirtu » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:37 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:Demons are metaphorical and so is my own ego..


Demons are real. Just look in the mirror - we have ~7B of them on the planet.

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby DGA » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:43 pm

Ervin wrote:That says that so called Mara the demon is karma. Isn't demon a being with intelligence and karma an impersonal physical law?

Thanks


Good question. Karma means action. What comes around, goes around. Actions and intentions can harden into habits. Habits of mind that are harmful or poisonous (think about hatred, insatiable greed, plain old ignorance) behave like demons.
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Ervin
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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:58 pm

Yeah, but there is a thing called good or white karma. Now can you call that a demon?

Also, why is white good? It's just a color?

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby deepbluehum » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:21 am

Ervin wrote:Yeah, but there is a thing called good or white karma. Now can you call that a demon?


So long as there is "I" or "mine," there is a demon, whether the actions are good or bad.

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Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons

Postby lobster » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:59 am

It is a Buddhist belief that all is void.
However most of us are full of it
rather than empty.

Same with demonic questions. :toilet:


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