Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

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Ervin
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Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:24 pm

What's Zen Buddhism? I went to an Eckhart Tolle meditation meetup in Melbourne and they where talking about Zen, but the bloke that spoke about it was speaking for way to long, way to fast and I think he was talking about some scriptures and in the end I didn't have a clue what he was on about.

From what I know Zen is an understanding that all knowledge and beliefs are equally valid, not just Buddhism. And I think it would be a very liberal understanding and practise of Buddhism.

Something like the saying that goes: All rivers lead to the same Sea.

Is my understanding Corect? Is Zen in Buddhism like liberal Sufism Rumi style is in Islam?

Thanks

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Indrajala
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Indrajala » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:18 pm

Zen is the Japanese Buddhist tradition inherited from China, which in Mandarin is Chan.

It isn't anything like you're suggesting. It has lineages, doxographies, specific practices, histories, rites and rulebooks.
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

Ervin
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:30 pm

And does all that come from Sakyamuni Buddha himself?

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Indrajala
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Indrajala » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:32 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

Ervin
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:00 pm

So Buddha was a Zen master?

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Astus
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Astus » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:07 pm

You should read some history and other basic things about Zen. See .
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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kirtu
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby kirtu » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:23 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

Ervin
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:27 pm

I would rather someone briefly explain to me the gist of it, so that I dont t have to do a lots of reading. I find it easier that way and someone who already knows all that can summarise it for me.

And I can debate then. I believe that debating is a good and interesting way to learn what others think and or know.

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Seishin
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Seishin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:37 pm

In all honesty, Zen Buddhism (all of Buddhism) is quite a hefty subject. Surely a summarization is not the best thing to debate over? :shrug: If I wanted to debate politics, I wouldn't do so on a paragraph or two of knowledge. That wikipedia article is a summarization. What you are looking for is a summarization of a summerization?

Gassho,
Seishin

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viniketa
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby viniketa » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:52 pm

The Gist


Image

You may now debate...

:smile:
. ~

Ervin
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:04 pm

Does flower being pretty, what I mean is you know it looks good and its pleasant to an eye . Does that have anything to do with why he picked up the flower?

I am not asking only those that claim enlightenment wich I haven't met on this forum. I value discussion with everyone equaly. You don't have to be that bloke who was the only one to understand what that meant to give your opinion as an answer to my questions.

Thanks

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viniketa
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby viniketa » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:16 pm

. ~

Ervin
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:24 pm

Thanks for your advice but I don't want to go to the Zen centre. I want to talk about it on the internet right now. But then again, I am alowed to change my my mind and one day I might go there.

Actually, you got me itchy now about the centre. Are there any in Melbourne, Australia? Sowhere close to the city.


Thanks.

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Seishin
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Seishin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:28 pm

There is a phrase which I really like "You can talk about tea, write about it, research it, debate about it, but you'll never really know until you taste it" (not sure who said it). Buddhism is like that. :smile:

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viniketa
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby viniketa » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:32 pm

. ~

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Astus
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Astus » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:45 pm

If you want an even shorter introduction to Zen, but still something conceptual, here is this four line poem attributed to Bodhidharma that is usually used as a definition of Zen.

教外別傳
不立文字
直指人心
見性成佛

Outside doctrines a separate transmission
Doesn't rely on letters and words,
Directly points to human mind
To see nature and become buddha.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



Ervin
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:15 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby Ervin » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:03 pm

I have heard someone say that in Zen there is a saying that if you see Buddha kill him. Does that mean have something to do with equanimity? Or is it just a nonsense?

infinitywaltz
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby infinitywaltz » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:13 pm

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" is a koan, which is a sort of riddle one meditates on in some forms of Zen and Chan practice. Some say that it is meant to convey the idea that the Buddha-nature is something not separate from you, so if you're "meeting the Buddha on the road," that Buddha is existing somewhere else, separate from you. Shunryu Suzuki said, "Kill the Buddha, because you should resume your own Buddha nature."

It's basically an admonition not to get distracted by appearances, thoughts and delusions.

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oushi
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby oushi » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:23 pm

Say what you think about me

shel
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Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?

Postby shel » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:13 pm



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