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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:55 am 
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How does karma work in relation to so called Demons, Are they subject to it? And what does Buddhism say on how do Demons operate?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:52 am 
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The Great Struggle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:29 am 
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That says that so called Mara the demon is karma. Isn't demon a being with intelligence and karma an impersonal physical law?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:49 am 
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Early Buddhism seems to point to Mara as metaphorical. IE, our own inner demons. However, when Buddhism spread to other countries Mara was seen as an actual being. I prefer the earlier version personally.

Gassho,
Seishin

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:06 pm 
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You know what puzzles me know: Demons are evil. Mara tempted Buddha. Mara is therefore intelligent and evil.

Now, how can people call demons karma when the is good karma wich is hot exclusively evil like demons are?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:52 pm 
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There are demon-like beings in Buddhism. Mostly they are in the realm of hungry spirits and the lower heavens. These are for example the naga (aquatic serpent demons), yaksha (nature spirits), rakshasa (man-eating demons), pishacha (flesh-eating demons), kimnara (centaurs), asura (warrior gods), mahoraga (subterranean serpent demons).

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Ervin wrote:
That says that so called Mara the demon is karma. Isn't demon a being with intelligence and karma an impersonal physical law?

Thanks


There are both.

A "māra" can refer to a personal mental obstacle of sorts (kleśa-māra) while it can also refer to an intelligent being. The Māra King is a deva named Paranirmita-vaśavartin or Pāpīyan in the sixth heaven of the desire realm. There are numerous other lesser māras, demons and spirits which Astus outlined above.

These demons are not physical beings as we would normally perceive them. The word "spirit" in English might be best used to describe them. They can directly attack people and this often manifests as mental illness, but can also result in possession or in milder cases otherwise irrational impulses. People undergoing emotional trauma are especially susceptible to such possession. Both Tibetan and Indian Ayurveda diagnose and address these illnesses. Daoism and some schools of East Asian Buddhism are able to address these problems as well. Some western occult traditions like the Order of the Golden Dawn have their methods too.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Seishin wrote:
Early Buddhism seems to point to Mara as metaphorical. IE, our own inner demons. However, when Buddhism spread to other countries Mara was seen as an actual being. I prefer the earlier version personally.

Gassho,
Seishin


I disagree. I think the ideas of Māra and devas were there from the start. By the Buddha's own admission these beings exist.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:44 pm 
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So I can be Mara in my next life if Mara is simply a sentient being? Watch out, I am good at tempting.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Ervin wrote:
So I can be Mara in my next life if Mara is simply a sentient being? Watch out, I am good at tempting.

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Yes.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Huseng wrote:
I disagree. I think the ideas of Māra and devas were there from the start. By the Buddha's own admission these beings exist.

Certainly there from the start yes. And devas yes I see as sentient beings, but I'm not too sure about Mara as a sentient being. However I'm not a scholar like yourself so it's just my thoughts. :smile:

Gassho,
Seishin.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Demons are metaphorical and so is my own ego..


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Metaphor for what? Also please, what's the ego metaphor for?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Ervin wrote:
How does karma work in relation to so called Demons, Are they subject to it? And what does Buddhism say on how do Demons operate?


Ultimately demons are your own negative emotions.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Ervin wrote:
Metaphor for what? Also please, what's the ego metaphor for?


For? For the path, i.e. confusion.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Demons are metaphorical and so is my own ego..


Demons are real. Just look in the mirror - we have ~7B of them on the planet.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Ervin wrote:
That says that so called Mara the demon is karma. Isn't demon a being with intelligence and karma an impersonal physical law?

Thanks


Good question. Karma means action. What comes around, goes around. Actions and intentions can harden into habits. Habits of mind that are harmful or poisonous (think about hatred, insatiable greed, plain old ignorance) behave like demons.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Yeah, but there is a thing called good or white karma. Now can you call that a demon?

Also, why is white good? It's just a color?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:21 am 
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Ervin wrote:
Yeah, but there is a thing called good or white karma. Now can you call that a demon?


So long as there is "I" or "mine," there is a demon, whether the actions are good or bad.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:59 am 
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It is a Buddhist belief that all is void.
However most of us are full of it
rather than empty.

Same with demonic questions. :toilet:

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