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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:57 am 
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If you believe that karma exists you give it power that way. If you stop believing in karma then it stops existing. You create your world to a great extent with your beliefs or should I say expectations.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:23 am 
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To a certain extent that is. Mind is a very powerful entity.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:21 am 
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If you stop believing in gravity then you can fly.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:50 am 
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Isn't it a Buddhist belief that once you reach enlightenment and become a so called Buddha your karma stops, you free your self from it. How else would you free you self from it but by realising that YOUR MIND can do it wich is believing its product if your mind, again, up to an extent and in a certain way.

So how does so called Buddha free himself from karma?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:36 am 
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After the Buddha became enlightened, he was accidentally hit on the head, stubbed his toe and many other little things like this which he stated was the last of his karma ripening.

Gassho,
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:24 am 
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But can you be a Buddha on earth and have no karma left? Also, how does Buddha free himself from it if its not by beliving/ knowing that he can control it?

How about Avalokitesvara mahasatva who reincarnated as others? Wouldn't he/she(Khan Yin Boddhisva) be on earth and free from the influence from karma to an extent, an extent of an enlightened being?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:38 am 
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To be honest, the Buddha didn't get too bogged down with karma and told his followers it's best to avoid the subject. Only a fully enlightened Buddha can know the karma of others but that hasn't stopped people debating about it. Some believe that after you've reached enlightenment you stop creating karma because your intentions are wholesome. Really I think that's key. Rather than worry about karma (the good and the bad etc) we should worry about our intentions and karma will sort itself out. :smile: You could say that karma is created by mind, but you create it whether you believe in it or not. Our unwholesome intentions/ unwholesome desires create bad karma.

Gassho,
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Could one say that believing to the point of knowing the truth about ultimate infinite goodness there is mean you are enlightened?

I don't think its good to make it look almost impossible to reach!

Isn't it a bit pessimistic to have beliefs that enlightenment is so hard to reach? Some people are making it look impossible. Like as if you need countless lifetimes to bring out what's inside of you. Isn't Buddha inside if you? It's you, Isn't it What about looking into your conciense for answers? Isn't Buddha your conciense?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:07 pm 
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Ervin wrote:
Isn't Buddha your conciense?

This is Mara. By deliberately acting against your conscience, you create karma. Conscience is a different name for morality, and morality is a gift from society. That is why isolation is practiced almost in every religion. It is natural barrier to keep people together like fence keeps cows together. Yes, it hurts... otherwise how would it work? What is being hurt?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Some believe it'll take lifetimes to reach enlightenment. Some believe it could happen right now :twothumbsup: From the looks at your posts it seems you might be confusing christian concepts with Buddhism. You have Buddhanature, which is the possibility to become fully enlightened. All sentient beings have it. However, it's not a "thing", it's a potential.

Your conscience is not Buddha in my opinion, but it can be governed by Buddhadharma if you study the texts and practice :smile:

Gassho,
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Ervin wrote:
If you believe that karma exists you give it power that way. If you stop believing in karma then it stops existing. You create your world to a great extent with your beliefs or should I say expectations.

Thoughts

Thanks


If that were true, then you could just stop beveling in karma and then murder someone with no consequences. But, wrong action like this always has consequences, regardless if you believe it will or not! So that can't be true.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Well, to me that means then that enlightened beings in this world don't have free will to chose between good and evil actions. Means that they can only do good. Is that freedom, to not have free will?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Ervin wrote:
Well, to me that means then that enlightened beings in this world don't have free will to chose between good and evil actions. Means that they can only do good. Is that freedom, to not have free will?


Thoughts


Having no afflictions means you cannot create unwholesome karma.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:55 pm 
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Enlightened beings choose to be compassionate, they are not forced to. They also know that it would be foolish to act without compassion. How is that not free will?

Gassho,
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:56 pm 
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seeker242 wrote:
But, wrong action like this always has consequences, regardless if you believe it will or not!

And which actions doesn't have consequences?
Ervin wrote:
Well, to me that means then that enlightened beings in this world don't have free will to chose between good and evil actions.

Hard to have free will without having a "self". Whos free will is it then?
Ervin wrote:
Is that freedom, to not have free will?

It's freedom to not believe in it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:04 pm 
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It's not enough to "stop believing in karma." You have to actually purify your perception to the point that you actually know karma is an illusion, without a doubt. That's what dharma is for. But in the meantime, to just say "I don't believe in karma, therefore it doesn't exist," you are fooling yourself. It's like saying "I believe I can fly." If this is so, then jump off a cliff, and that will indicate whether or not this belief is actually true for you.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:11 pm 
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dakini_boi wrote:
If this is so, then jump off a cliff, and that will indicate whether or not this belief is actually true for you.


Don't try this at home, folks.

:rolling:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:27 pm 
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dakini_boi wrote:
It's not enough to "stop believing in karma." You have to actually purify your perception to the point that you actually know karma is an illusion, without a doubt. That's what dharma is for. But in the meantime, to just say "I don't believe in karma, therefore it doesn't exist," you are fooling yourself. It's like saying "I believe I can fly." If this is so, then jump off a cliff, and that will indicate whether or not this belief is actually true for you.


So, its impossible that I might be enlightened? That I might have reached true enlightenment? It's impossible that I might be that person who knows the truth? Is that what you are saying? How do you know that I am fooling my self?

What, because I am not a famous monk or because I might not share your beliefs and or understanding I am fooling my self?

I invite others to answer this question if they wish so?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Ervin wrote:
So, its impossible that I might be enlightened? That I might have reached true enlightenment? It's impossible that I might be that person who knows the truth? Is that what you are saying?


Yes! :twothumbsup:

Ervin wrote:
What, because I am not a famous monk or because I might not share your beliefs and or understanding I am fooling my self?


No-one is saying that. What Dakini-boi is saying is that not believing something does not mean that something does not exist.

Gassho,
Seishin

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:59 pm 
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I disagree. He is saying that I don't know the truth about karma?


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