How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Lhug-Pa
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:23 pm


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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:01 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

Josef
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby Josef » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:18 pm


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Lhug-Pa
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:31 pm

It is very doubtful that H.H. the Dalai Lama is merely trying to "appease conservatives" on this issue.

Yes H.H. the Dalai Lama often speaks in laymen's terms so to speak in order to not go over the heads of the majority of his listeners, however this is different.

I quoted Will there because of his use of quotation marks around "conservative", meaning that I got the sense of what he was getting at. If I really did get the sense of what Will meant, he wasn't saying "conservative" in contrast to liberal in it's real sense, but in contrast to its popular meaning. The popular meaning of liberal is basically equal to libertine, whereas the real meaning of liberal is—like I said—basically synonymous with progressiveness. So in comparison to libertinism, the Dharma is indeed "conservative". Yet in itself the Dharma is liberal, as in the Liberal Arts and Five Sciences. Also, Will has expressed interest in learning about Dzogchen, and from what I've gathered it's not merely to argue against it, but is actually a genuine interest. Although of course he can speak for himself.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yudron
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby Yudron » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:41 pm

I am 53, and I have been out since I was 17 in the 1976. Being a lesbian (and people’s homophobia) is a really fascinating topic for about 20 years—then gardening becomes way more enthralling. Now, I am utterly bored with the topic of homosexuality. I live in a part of the world where people could care less if you are gay or lesbian, so antiquated and uninformed views like Lhugpa are expressing are, honestly, pretty funny.

However, I am always concerned that gay and lesbian people who are new to the Dharma will get the impression that they will not be welcomed into the Dharma. So, I am just going to give a reality check here—not about books and ancient texts, but about what people are likely to experience in the world of the Nyingma tradition, which is what I know best.

Homosexuality was completely hidden in old Tibet, but as present as anywhere. It’s slightly better now, but still similar to how things were here in the U.S. in the 1950’s. If you have a close relationship with older Tibetans who are comfortable talking about sexuality, as I do, you can ask them about how it was when they were young. Some will tell you about the secret overtures they received from other same gender men or women. (And I don’t mean in a monastery, which is a whole different topic.)

And in current Tibet, it’s like anywhere, you can see gays and lesbians all over if you have the right eyes. Yet, perhaps their own brothers and sisters would say they have never met a gay or lesbian person, or that there are no gays and lesbians in Tibet. Here is an example of a gay man’s fun trip there recently: http://www.stickyrice.ws/?view=tg_tibet
Probably all these hunks are in the closet to their families, and there certainly is no Gay Pride Parade (yet).

I hear that a few of the great lamas of 20th century were actually gay or bisexual. I’ve heard from western men visiting senior lamas in the exile Tibetan communities that they have been propositioned at times. Lesbians are more beneath the radar, but we have our guides as to where to find each other in all the cities of Tibet and the Tibetan diaspora.

Most of the lamas who come to live in the U.S. (and I imagine this would apply to most Western countries) generally like our ways. At least most of the Nyingma lamas I know – and I know a lot of them—like the improved status of women, and are comfortable that homosexuality is out in the open rather than closeted. They welcome gay and lesbian students with open arms, along with anyone else who will practice. Occasionally Tibetans, such as relatives or minor lamas, come to visit our center from Asia and say ridiculous things about women not being able to gain enlightenment (or other baloney like that), and our wisdom lamas just roll their eyes. Same with homosexuality.

Dzogchen masters in particular, seem to be very comfortable with gays and lesbians, and every other conceivable kind of human, even when they are just flown in from the back roads of rural Tibet for the first time.

A serious practitioner of any Buddhist path comes to a point where every moment of day and night needs to be integrated with practice. The strength of the Vajrayana is it’s wide assortment of techniques for every possible occasion, from sleeping and dreaming, to having a bowel movement, to exercising, to having sex, etc… These are instructions one receives from one’s lama, and there is something for everyone. These instructions are personal, in my opinion it is not appropriate to mouth off about them with pride on internet forums. Especially practices one has no personal experience of.

So, LGBT folks, PM me if you are trying to find a home in the Dharma here in the U.S., I’ll send you some place loving and supportive. Of course, most Zen and Vipassana centers run by Westerners are good, too.

Yudron
Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:12 pm

Last edited by treehuggingoctopus on Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

Namgyal
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby Namgyal » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:13 pm

Hello, in my experience elderly Tibetan Lamas are rather wide-eyed and curious about homosexuality along the lines of 'wow, really what's that all about?'...but hostile, no of course not because that would be discriminatory and cruel. If they had any concerns it would that the individual might experience extra suffering in the societies in which they live. Technically, it is sexual misconduct, but this must be understood within a spectrum in which celibacy is the ideal at one end of the spectrum and sexual obsession, of any kind, is at the other extreme. In general if there are any ancient rules which appear heartless and unkind though our modern eyes then they should be abandoned, because of course it us who actually set these rules for ourselves.
:namaste: R.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:27 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby justsit » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:36 pm


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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby lobster » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:44 am

I want Yudron and her gay gardening [not yet available] in an inclusive sangha
devoid of calls for the exclusion of those who like to dig. :applause:

I want a sangha that embraces :group:

Beginners welcome, red neck lamas, aubergines
and deluded lobsters welcome.
Modern? Just suited to needs . . .

This is the jewel
these are the facets . . . :twothumbsup:

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:36 pm

Last edited by treehuggingoctopus on Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:38 pm


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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:45 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby Yudron » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:00 pm

Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.

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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby catmoon » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:29 pm

Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

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Grigoris
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby Grigoris » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:52 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:06 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby justsit » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:07 pm

Image

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underthetree
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby underthetree » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:12 pm


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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:23 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .


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