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Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta! - Dhamma Wheel

Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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manas
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Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby manas » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:12 pm

Ok, I put that as the topic not for the majority here, but on the off chance that someone out in the virtual world might be enduring the same struggle I did many years ago - that of feeling a growing respect for the Buddha as a Teacher, and a liking for Buddhist meditation, but a problem with the 'doctrine of anatta' (in the way it is often espoused in the Buddhist world of today - please read below...) If this is you, don't despair; here is an article you should read about this issue:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... self2.html

If I had read this 20 years ago, my faith in the Dhamma might have been stronger due to a better grasp of the Teaching, and I might have avoided so much of the wasted time and often foolish acts of the last 20 years, struggling as I was to keep a firm faith due to a wrong grasp of the Teaching. I would not have inordinately (and sometimes anxiously) focussed on whether there 'is' a self, or 'is not' a self 'in actuality' (wrong kind of question, according to the Buddha)... I might have instead focused on what the Buddha asks us to focus on: Dukkha, it's Cause, Unbinding, and the Path leading to Unbinding.

I realize that the whole issue is probably a non-issue for most more experienced and/or firmly established in faith / insight folks here. I'm simply wishing to put that link there in the hope that someone out there might find it useful in a search for help on this issue...
Last edited by manas on Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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ground
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby ground » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:07 am


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manas
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby manas » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:41 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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ground
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby ground » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:54 am


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manas
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby manas » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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ground
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby ground » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:21 am


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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby ancientbuddhism » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:49 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


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daverupa
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby daverupa » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:09 pm


pulga
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby pulga » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:59 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby daverupa » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:14 pm


pulga
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby pulga » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:56 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby daverupa » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:46 pm


chownah
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby chownah » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:08 am


Kenshou
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby Kenshou » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:12 am

Why is this even worth arguing about? If they're on the path, great, if they're not, are they going to get there by doing something other than practicing the noble 8 fold path the best they can?

pulga
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby pulga » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:33 am

Jànato aham bhikkhave passato àsavànam khayam vadàmi no ajànato no apassato. Kinca bhikkhave jànato kim passato àsavànam khayo hoti? Yoniso ca manasikàram ayoniso ca manasikàram. (M2) I.e. The ásavas are destroyed for one who knows and sees ayoniso manasikára and yoniso manasikára. The sutta goes on to describe how the puthujjana is trapped by ayoniso manasikára, unable to understand what is fit for attention and what is unfit for attention.

pulga
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby pulga » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:12 am


Kenshou
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby Kenshou » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:26 am

So, what are the practical implications of all this? I can't see any.

We're going to get right view by doing the practice, it's not going to walk up to us on it's own while we sit in the dirt and twiddle our thumbs.

chownah
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby chownah » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:36 am


chownah
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby chownah » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:49 pm

Pulga,
It seems that the Buddha taught the Noble Eight Fold Path to puthujjana.....it would seem very odd for the Buddha to teach the Path to people who could not follow it.....I guess.....
chownah

JackV
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Re: Don't be put off the Dhamma by anatta!

Postby JackV » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:06 pm

Manasikara, thank you for this link. It always helps to re-read and go over issues and reaffirm subjects even if we are confident that we understand them fully.

Blessings
Here where a thousand
captains swore grand conquest
Tall grasses their monument.


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