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Reduction of Suffering Levels - Dhamma Wheel

Reduction of Suffering Levels

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
nibs
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:37 pm

Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby nibs » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:08 am

Posting a new thread due to the Kearney thread being locked.

Regardless of what to call the cessation of the senses and how you wish to interpret it, the first cessation undid something in the brain. The sense of self was blown out of the water right before it and the cessation that followed just seemed to flip a switch. The sense of centre point of an illusory self, the images, the sensations behind the eyeballs and the chest, nothing but impersonal impermanent phenomena arising and passing away. nibs didn't really exist the way he thought he did.

Afterwards, re-occurrences of the cessation kept happening always at the end of an insight cycle in the 11th nana and plopped me back into the buzzy bliss of the 4th nana, only to once again to rise up to rinse and repeat. I could call up a cessation when I wanted too. Resolutions became almost magical. The cessations never occurred for more than a brief moment as far as I could measure (listening to a song to see how long it lasted). The cool bliss exit experience afterglow was very conducive for generating metta and launching into the formless realms.

Later, another cessation, which had much more of a pronounced entrance and exit experience, occurred one day out of the blue. It left the mind profoundly different once again. The two magnets which I would equate to the sensations on and in the body and the mind's tendency to bend around them, identify with them and react to them with a compounded "feeling", lost some of their pulling power. They became easier to seperate and see without them clamping together. Certain mental absorptions became extremely easy to enter and jump about to each one by will of mind alone. Suffering levels reduced considerably due to being able to see the compounding process (and break it up) with much more clarity and ease. The "stickiness" and magnetic pull to identify was reduced considerably.

Then much later, another equally strong exit and entrance to another cessation of the senses left the mind completely changed and very, very aloof to all the phenomena arising and passing within this mind/body organism. The sense of illusory "I" seemed to thin out. The sensations of I AM kept arising but were now seen more clearly to be fluff, smoke and mirrors. Suffering levels reduced once again considerably. Those mentioned mental absorptions were accessed by the speed of directed thought.

Then one day, I didn't know what to do, so I gave up looking for something to do and surrendered. Ended up in the 11th nana quite naturally. The mind was so panoramic, calm and the sensations which were being misread as a centre point of "I" were easily seen to be just sensations being mistakenly put up on a pedestal. They were being mis-read as having importance and therefore seemed to influence the sticky sense of I AM. In several moments of seeing through them, seeing them as no more important than an itch did something. Something flipped in the brain. This time, it followed a cessation of the senses rather than occurred due to the cessation or happening before a cessation. I was conscious of this particular blip.

It occured as the mind became aware of the non-sacredness of those particular sensations which were previously being put up on an illusory throne. After this profound perceptual shift, there was no centrepoint left. It had dropped away with the conscious shift in perception. Awareness became permanently non-localised. Awareness became more panoramic and full bodied. It was easy to see why certain schools of thought thought this to be a goal of sorts. The feeling of being done was the theme. No more of that incessant urge to get something done. It felt like getting off the ride.

Everything was seen to be not-self. No "I" in any phenomena. The stickiness disapeared. However, the compounding of phenomena to form feelings of all kinds keeps occurring even though it was and is continuously seen to be not-self. Past habitual tendencies continue but are easily seen to arise as compounded phenomena. But that compounding seems to support an I AM still. Something still to protect and consider "my precious". What a mindfrack! The compounding of phenomena to give rise to affective feeling seems to just be a process of continuing the sense of "being", of becoming. Sure, affective feelings can easily be seen as not-self as they arise as compounded phenomena. But one can also chose to dismantle it further. The sticky magnets have lost their stickiness, and that compounding process is now easy to see as a compounding process, and easy to break up and cease. Cease for good? It would seem that that is now the job at hand.

Regardless of what you call the cessation of the senses, the ones that have affect, will leave you profoundly changed and reduce suffering levels significantly and profoundly. I don't know why Ingram calls this what he does. I don't agree and really don't care to call it anything. But all that is needed to know, is that it deals with suffering in a profound way. I would not trade it for anything. Not a 100 years of "normal" pre-this mind for just one day of this. Not at all. However, this doesn't mean the job is done. There is much more work to do it seems.

Much love,

nibs

Edited a few times as that is a habitual tendency that has not disappeared.

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kirk5a
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:52 pm

Hi nibs, thanks for sharing. What would you say is referred to as "amata" = "deathless" or "without death"?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

nibs
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby nibs » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:07 pm

Last edited by nibs on Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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kirk5a
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:00 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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tiltbillings
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:04 pm


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kirk5a
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:19 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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tiltbillings
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:33 pm


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kirk5a
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:02 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Alex123
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby Alex123 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:25 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby Alex123 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:29 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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kirk5a
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:46 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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beeblebrox
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:07 pm


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kirk5a
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:15 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Alex123
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby Alex123 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:20 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:34 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Alex123
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby Alex123 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:41 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:46 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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beeblebrox
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Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:56 pm


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Alex123
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby Alex123 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:59 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Reduction of Suffering Levels

Postby kirk5a » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:05 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230


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