Pure Land & Suicide

Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Nosta » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:25 pm

sinweiy wrote:
Nosta wrote:I dont see how can we come back as Boddhisatvas to this world.

If Pure Land is filled with people, why cant we see, today on Earth, monks "comming" from Pure Land? There should be at least a dozen of guys on Earth that are indeed Bodhisatvas from Pure Land.


MCK mentioned that a real bodhisattvas (but might not be from WPL) will not expose their true identity. if they do expose, you will not find them around the next day or next moment.

i do heard of few stories when the person's bodhisattva identity is revealed, they would not be around anymore. one example is 13th PL Patriarch Master Yin Guang who is known to be the coming of Mahasthamaprapta. when people start to know the truth, he left for PL the next day.


Why would they disapear??

About Dalai Lama, as someone said here, i think that he is just a "normal" guy; i mean, not someone that came from Pure Land to this planet.
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby sinweiy » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:25 am

it's to beware of those people (like certain cults, e.g. Falun Gong) who proclaim to be the coming of which Buddha/bodhisattva to gain popularity, student and make money from it.

Buddha/bodhisattvas are selfless and not to seek fame. :smile:
_/\_
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby plwk » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:11 am

I hope the OP got his answers as the thread has already gone beyond its original scope...
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Nighthawk » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:11 am

sinweiy wrote:it's to beware of those people (like certain cults, e.g. Falun Gong) who proclaim to be the coming of which Buddha/bodhisattva to gain popularity, student and make money from it.

Buddha/bodhisattvas are selfless and not to seek fame. :smile:

Why don't Bodhisattvas out of compassion let it be known who they are and in the mean time perform supernatural abilities like Jesus supposedly did in order to instill faith in the skeptical masses, so that way more people can see Buddhahood as a worthy goal to accomplish?
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby infinitywaltz » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:15 am

Nighthawk wrote:Why don't Bodhisattvas out of compassion let it be known who they are and in the mean time perform supernatural abilities like Jesus supposedly did in order to instill faith in the skeptical masses, so that way more people can see Buddhahood as a worthy goal to accomplish?


I"m guessing because it probably wouldn't work; most "miracle workers" and claimants to enlightenment, godhood, etc. turn out to be con men, and demonstrations of supernatural powers could make people more invested in their own delusions and desires, instead of less. I'm just guessing, of course; I'm no Bodhisattva...
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:38 pm

Nighthawk wrote:Why don't Bodhisattvas out of compassion let it be known who they are and in the mean time perform supernatural abilities like Jesus supposedly did in order to instill faith in the skeptical masses, so that way more people can see Buddhahood as a worthy goal to accomplish?


Are you asserting the existence, regarding realized beings, of a "self"?
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Zenshin 善心 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:11 pm

Why don't Bodhisattvas out of compassion let it be known who they are and in the mean time perform supernatural abilities like Jesus supposedly did in order to instill faith in the skeptical masses, so that way more people can see Buddhahood as a worthy goal to accomplish?


what could be more miraculous than acts borne of compassion? performance of supernatural abilities are like side-shows in comparison imo.
All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby catmoon » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:38 pm

Nighthawk wrote:Why don't Bodhisattvas out of compassion let it be known who they are and in the mean time perform supernatural abilities like Jesus supposedly did in order to instill faith in the skeptical masses, so that way more people can see Buddhahood as a worthy goal to accomplish?


Because that is not what they would see. Instead of seeing Buddhahood as a worthy goal, the siddhis would be seen as means to base ends, like accumulating wealth, killing enemies, and gaining fame.

If you want your audience to draw the correct conclusions from siddhis, you need to have a very select audience indeed.
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Nosta » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:46 pm

Indeed Catmoon; what atracts me the most in buddhism its the "fresh air", the sistematic way that Buddha expose how to end suffering. Everything that Buddha teaches its simply amazing and beautiful. Siddhas would only make things more "doubtful". With thast in mind i now understand the answer that Sinwei gave to my question: Boddhistavas from Pure Land here on Earth would be seen as liars and their miracles as hoaxes.

Even so, i think that at least, while disapearing, they could left some subtle sign of their origin. It would be a great way to give more hope and faith i think.
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby Adumbra » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:40 am

I think that the frequency of suicides connected with Pure Land Buddhism is more a symptom of Japanese culture than the religion itself. In Japan, suicide simply doesn't seem to have the stigma that it does in most cultures. I mean, these are a people who have at least 4 different words for suicide (that I'm aware of). How many languages can boast that?

I think my favorite is Shinju. I can't imagine dying for my nation (kame-kaze) or my honor (hira-kiri), but if love is worth living for, it's certainly worth dying for!

That said, I suppose any religion which preaches a better life in the hereafter is going to lead to suicide, whether it be explicit or clothed in the figleaf of martyrdom. Hell, Christianity and Islam are responsible for more suicides than Pure Land Buddhism by far.
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Re: Pure Land & Suicide

Postby sinweiy » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:33 am

Nighthawk wrote:Why don't Bodhisattvas out of compassion let it be known who they are and in the mean time perform supernatural abilities like Jesus supposedly did in order to instill faith in the skeptical masses, so that way more people can see Buddhahood as a worthy goal to accomplish?


to add on: i think in a proper dharma period/age, they would/could, but not in a dharma skeptical(or ending) age. selective maybe.

some or most people are skeptical about Jesus, no?
it's not worth performing supernatural abilities.
_/\_
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