Demand Accountability for Sri Lanka Crimes Now

[Mr. G]

After a US State Department official called for reconciliation and accountability in Sri Lanka last week, US lawmakers are now taking concrete action to hold the State Department to its own word (unfortunately the State Department seems to support theinsufficient domestic investigation into the war crimes). Currently, a congressional sign on letter is circulating at Capitol Hill, gaining support to identify those responsible for the crimes committed in the final stage of Sri Lanka’s civil war. The letter, sponsored by Representatives Jan Schakowsky and James McGovern, urges Secretary Clinton to publicly call for an independent international investigation into alleged war crimes committed by both sides during the war in Sri Lanka. We urgently need your help in asking your representative to sign on. To achieve the highest impact with this congressional letter and keep up the pressure for true accountability, we must collect enough signatures now.

Last year, activists like you spearheaded the global Unlock the Camps in Sri Lanka campaign, leading to the release of tens of thousands of civilians who were detained after the end of the war. Now we need your help again.Please take action today by asking your representative in the House to sign the congressional letter, demanding an international investigation.The letter will be closed this Friday, July 30, so please urge your representative now!

Here‘s how you can take action:

1. Take action online: http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/siteap ... tion=14554

2. Call the Congressional switchboard at 202 224-3121 and ask for your representative. Tell him about the letter and encourage him to support it.

[ronnewmexico]

Did war crimes occur...quite possibly.

Would the great US if it had Osama B and the last of his followers on the end of a island abeit surrounded by civilians not bomb those same civilians and AlQuaeda....you know they would.
They are in fact doing that at this very moment in Afghanistan. They call them drones. And Very many other countries are supporting the US efforts in Afghanistan at this very moment.

Point being..... any US condemnation of things they are right now doing will be laughed at by the international community.

Whats next a condemnation of land mines? we could add a resoltution condemning land mines and cluster bombs which by their nature are bound to maim and kill innocent civilians mainly children? But wait isn't the US about the only country that manufactures and supports their use and dessimation. How about we start a resolution condemning the manufacturers of land mines as war criminals....how about that? But wait that would be us.
How about a congressional condemnation of rendition and torture...how about that next? But wait it seems those are war crimes to and our current and past US Presidents may be so guilty as charged...

How about we add in that resolution that these purpertrators be brought to the international court and tribunal.....we could first start by recognizing that body when nine tenths of the rest of the world already does, and the morally superior US does not.

Yeah lets start there..... we could perhaps first get real.
The US calling for others to be held accountable for war crimes....???

This is not april fools day

[kirtu]

But wait isn't the US about the only country that manufactures and supports their use and dessimation.

Wikipedia has identified the following nations as landmine producers:

The ICBL has identified the following countries as manufacturing land mines as of August 2004. None are signatories of the Ottawa Treaty.[22]

* Burma [23]
* People's Republic of China
* Cuba [24]
* India [25]
* Iran [26]
* Iraq (although production had presumably ceased since the invasion of 2003)[27]
* Nepal [28]
* North Korea [29]
* Pakistan [30]
* Russian Federation [31]
* Singapore [32]
* Vietnam [33]

The US stopped landmine production in 1997. However it has one of the largest stockpiles of landmines. I'm not sure if the US sells landmines anymore or not (I think it does not sell landmines any longer but don't know for certain).

Basically US, Russian and Chinese munitions fuel the world's conflicts. The French and the Swedes are also major weapons producers.

How about we start a resolution condemning the manufacturers of land mines as war criminals....how about that?

We should start a resolution to ban weapons sales of all sorts.

Kirt

[kirtu]

1. Take action online: http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/siteap ... tion=14554

Sent. Thank's, Mr. Gordo!

2. Call the Congressional switchboard at 202 224-3121 and ask for your representative. Tell him about the letter and encourage him to support it.

I'll call Congresswoman Norton tomorrow am.

Kirt

[ronnewmexico]

Well that is true, and I am in error on that specific but that is also a bit misleading...

To quote Wiki..."Signatories of the Ottawa Treaty agree that they will not use, develop, manufacture, stockpile or trade in anti-personnel land mines. There were originally 122 signatories in 1997; currently[update], it has been signed by 155 countries and ratified by 153. Another 40 have yet to sign on. United States is not one of the signatories, based on lacking an exception for the DMZ of Korea.:

So the US,the moral authority refused to sign the treaty that bans anti personel land mines....and cluster bombs which are particularly heinous in their similiar result to children and other innocents, where does the US lie in manufacture and potential use of those items...? Who suppied Israel with the ones they used in the last conflct they engaged in...? Well 107 countries have signed on to ban their use....think the US is one of them? NO the US is in fact one of 14 countries in recent history to have not only manufactured and stockpiled them but to have used them.

And the US as the article states...... despite not manufacturing land mines remains with one of the worlds largest stockpiles of land mines.

So that is a bit misleading. Secondarily the point is not on the specific of land mines.... the specific is on the US laying claim to have some moral authority to demand accountability for other countries war crimes.

The killing of innocents is the claim. The specific is innocents were killed by the SriLankan military when they had the last vistages of the Tamil Tigers trapped at the end of the island. RAther then engage them in basically hand to hand combat and risk many casualities the Sri Lanka forces elected to bomb the civilians and Tamil Tigers it seems.

That is a dispicible heinous act but the fact of the matter is the US has no moral authority to tell any country to be accountable for anything.
The drone attacks on Afghanistan(and prior in Iraq), have been shown unequivocally to have caused the death of many many inncocent civilians. This has been reinforced recently by the release of the Afghanistan papers which attests to this very thing. This is a war crime and the US is perpertrating it as we speak. The military has been shown by these same papers to have composed "hit squads" of operatives, assination squads which also violate the rules of war. And various incidents have surfaced which show the military indiscriminately killing journalists and other defenseless civilians which also comprises a war crime.

And not to mention the rendition and torture of suspects in the war on terror, some by waterboarding(one prisoner being waterboarded in excess of 100 times in one month) and some by other means such as cold exposure, standing or sitting in unnatural positions for long periods of time, sleep deprivation, forced nakedness, and many many other means all of which are outlawed by the Geneva convention and conidered to be war crimes when conducted by government inspiration. Some of these actions with the full knowledge of American Presidents.

Yes call your congressperson....right now!!!
So yes.... call your congressperson, so they can authorize such a demand and be literally laughed off the international stage as the entire world knows the US has recently committed war crimes of many sort, and is presently committing war crimes and thusly has no moral authority to demand anything from anyone in that regard.

Geeze LOuise how about calling your congressperson and asking them to close Guantanamo to include the secret subsite on Guantanamo, to stop renditions, and to stop the killing of innocent civilians by drone attacks.

Is there any difference under the sun between the Sri Lanka military shelling Tamil terrorists and civilians and our useing explosive drones to kill Taliban adherants and civilians....

here is a clue....there is no difference whatsoever.


If one cannot see they are the same...I just don't know what to say.
So yes call your congresspersson if you want the US and the congressperson, to look like fools on the international stage.

I....I cannot describe how the statements in this thread lead me to believe America is one lost lost cause. I will not morne its passing.


They simply have no moral authority.... not a whit. Their peoples...this thread speaks for their peoples.
Quite unequivocally.

Keep on keeping on America, depose democratically elected leaders in many many countries and replace them with dictators such as Salvadore Allende and the Shaw of Iran, torture, kill civilians, kidnap citizens from other countries. remove peoples to countries where we know they will be tortured as our behest, refuse to sign treaties outlawing heinous weapons which basically always target civilians, start wars without attack, 600,000 die as result,and then call for other countries to not committ war crimes.

Only in America could such a thing happen. The arrogance of America is truly outstanding.

Yes, call right now!!! Don't delay.
Excuse me as I silently weep at the destruction of a once great nation as it falls by self indulgence and corruptions heavy hand.

[ronnewmexico]

Ah noone noticed this thing. No personal offense intended of any sort, but to my overall view their is a cognitive defect of some sort abouding in the America's which allows for it politic. I have not apprehended its cause but that it is present to my view is proven by a way of looking at things such as is displayed with this thread. To obviously miss a obvious point...that america is in no way shape or form able to be moral judge of another nation.

I have produced a error in my last point but most cannot notice the error as they cannot maintain focus to read long complex posts. Our circumstance is self created. We reflect our tendencies. We have no attention spans and suchly now produce vehicles which communicate in very restricted fashion of so many characters. This is not just because we want these things in this fashion but because we no longer can apprehend things if they are in longer more complex fashion.

ON debate...
A basic point was made....we should take a particular action as it is morally wrong.
I counter that point stateing basically we are in no manner able to make that statement as people generally will not listen to one in singular or in group who are committing that very same moral wrong and finding it present in others and then do complain not about themselves but others;
Humans glass house parable and others do generally show that to be not sustainable....that way of doing things.

Now one states as counter he has found in my initial point that one point of perhaps ten or so in minorly in error. Now one states in his zeal to confound and disprove my argument due to this one singular minor error that my whole argument is now deficient, and in fact refuted.

Of course debate does not proceed in this way. A basic contention must be refuted not just one minor add on or substantiation to that argument....is it the zeal to believe or prove such a thing that is at the heart of this cognitive disorder present in america?

So I reintroduce a argument with a error in it...."replace them with dictators such as Salvadore Allende and the Shaw of Iran, ". But no one notices. Regardless...three conclusions can be drawn....either people are so ignorant of global history they do not know who Salvadore Alloende was(which is possibly the case)or they are very nice and do not mention it(which since these are Buddhists and thusly talk mostly about compassion but little perform it, seems unlikely), or they cannot read a very long post...

I contend the third is the most probable. We cannot as americans maintain focus to read and cognicize long complex written things,nor maintain focus on anything which does not in the immediate provide self pleasure or self satisfaction.

Salvadore Allende was of course no dictator but the person who was assinated with assistance of the US intelligence forces years ago.

My point still stands but I thought it necessary to introduce this adjacent point to elaborate on another issue...the cognitive defect present at present in these peoples called americans. It's obvious displayal to my opinion is outstanding.

This defect it is that allows us to produce threads such as these not knowing for a instant how absurd they are.
Again no offense to the initial poster or any who participated in it.

[kirtu]

or they cannot read a very long post...

I contend the third is the most probable.

Ron - don't take the the wrong way but sometimes your posts are very long.

Salvadore Allende was of course no dictator but the person who was assinated with assistance of the US intelligence forces years ago.

Allende wasn't assassinated but executed in the Presidential Palace allegedly by a CIA agent after the Chilean military on the scene refused. But no one knows for sure because the few people who were supposedly present aren't talking. The official story is of coursed that Allende committed suicide during the coup.

The US and Russia were the leading arms salesnations for many years (followed by France, the UK, Sweden, Brazil, South Africa China and other nations). They did supply all the wars after 1945. Now there are so many small arms in the world with so much small arms ammunition that in fact no one can control arms access. Anywhere in the Third World you can find sufficient small arms to wage whatever conflict you wish without any outside entity supplying more weaponry.

BUT - this in no way affects the correct (IMV) impetus to bring the Sri Lankan war crimes to light and to account (on both sides, BTW but esp. with the total war viciousness of the Sinhalese majority at the end of the war).

Kirt Undercoffer

[ronnewmexico]

As before you are splitting hairs for no effect.

Wether Allende's death was considered a firing squad or a assination is really a semantically based one and again very minor to point. As initially your point on land mines is very minor and not important to point.

The basic point is that the US is in no position to take a official governmental stance on war crime potentiality or accountability for any other nation as they are in a morally deficient position presently in that regard and have been for quite some time. YOu can perhaps play with the nuance, say well.....the stance in this particular is not so bad as this or that is present.....that does not refute the basic point.

This is a call for a action by the US congress to make a international statement of sorts, not a personal statement of concern. If a personal statement of condemnation is to be made....certainly I'm all for it.
If a governmental statement is made.....that is a entirely differing affair.

The US is simply not in a position to do so. What next a condemnation of some other countries response to illegal immigration, considering theirs deficient.

That is how absurd is this propostion which I can only assume you and others have not thought through.

Why Americans so often fail to think such things through as evidenced by this thread.....is what has me puzzled. Any person with the slightest notion of the rational and the slightest apprehensiion as to the US's role in todays global politic would naturally know this will be laughed off the international stage.

Perhaps in this specific it is inability to see the difference between a governmental and personal thing.

Call your representative,what do I care. All know the US is filled with idiiots generally anyway. The song American idiot by Greenday...a global hit.
But if for a instant you want to do a wise thing...call your congressperson and ask them to stop the US drone attacks and perhaps the Afghan war.

This is idiocy plain flat and simple.

[Mr. G]

ron,

As an American, I agree that the American agenda is an imperialistic one, and our politicians from both parties are arrogant and have no limits to their hypocrisy. We do not hesitate to condemn other countries while financially / militarily exploiting others. Our politicians also will not hesitate to kowtow to corporate interests and even exploit our own people as with hydraulic fracturing.

For me, I do what I can. I donate what little money I can to organizations that do good work, I sign petitions that I deem worthy, I call my local representatives to let them know that at least one person is watching and cares. For now, this is what I can do, and hopefully I have the capacity to do more in the future.

And yes, I am against the war in Afghanistan and the use of drones as well.

[ronnewmexico]

As a perhaps a final point I will add this...

In a historical context the US will get involved in various external issues in response to others. For instance the US's condemnation of the Turkish genocide of armenians about 100 years ago or so(someone will now undoubtably post this occured 75years ago and claiim my entire post is now refuted)
is engaged in occasionally by the US government. It is a sensetive issue in Turkey but here....only a very very small group armenians care anything about it. When the US historically has a issue with Turkey they will bring up invariably the Turkish genocide and measures to condemn it. When the issue is resolved they will retract it(the sponsors).

Suchly are such US governmental condemnation superficially considered with compassionate intent but under examination found to be self serving. Other countries do such things as well.

There are 2 major powers in Asia...China and INdia who are at war in various ways. INdia is HIndu and homeland to Tamils a Hindu sect. During the colonial period the European colonialists used a minority population the tamils(colonialism did things in this fashion for purpose of control) to exert contol in Srilanka over the Buddhist majority. There were also a importation of Tamils to Sri Lanka for various construction and agricultural projects. As is very common when the Buddhist majority attained majority power with the end of colonial rulem they as normally happens in such places took their history of oppression out on the minority who participated in it, the Tamils. They passed various measures which were discriminitory such as no speaking of the Tamil Language in business transactions, no opportuity for higher learning...thing of that sort. The Tamil minority on the north of the island of course rebelled, They eventually formed into the Tamil Tigers who through oppressive means such as terrorist tactics and murder hijacked the cause to their causee. They bacame a bonafida terrorist group and did pass measures in their held lands(northern Sri Lanka) that depossesed the historical lands of Muslims Buddhists and basically any other minority. Tit for tat for tit I'd guess You'd say.

Now the Tamils are a fairly influencial group in the India politic. They as other minorities desire a homeland such as do Kurds displayed in differing nations always have.They desire total autonomity.As such the Tamil Tigers did become a cause of sorts in part of the Indian politic. They provided the support for the Tamil Tigers,which quite unfortunately were a terrorist group. Not officially as due to assinations and the way terrorists do business they had Indian support of only basically the Tamils. But the Tamils are a strong politic in INdia.
India desires a expansion of boundry as do most nations. One province of India is in fact historically not Indian by character but had unrestricted immigration to its area and as result had its lands become basically part of India over time.This was annexed by India eventually by popular vote. With a Tamil land in Sri Lanka to the Buddhists in Sri Lanka eventually the unrestricted immigration of Tamils and other Hindus and the nondefensible border between north and south Sri Lanka would have shortly resulted in Sri Lanki becomeing a Hindu state of possibly India. As such the Sri Lankan Buddhist majority would go to any extent to stop that from happening. In recent history as a colony of sorts, they were treated badly.
Butan another Buddhist state had a similiar issue in the nineties and had to expell thousands upon thousands of immigrants to preseve cultural identity.

Hence the war and the extent to which it was fought and the ferocity with which it was fought. It was a war of survival to the Buddhist majority. A tamil state and Sri Lanka as a buddhist majority would end.

So enter on the stage the US and their purchant to use such issues for personal gain.Support this and that really means we support that. Condemn this and it really means we condemn that as I explain with the Turkey example. Sri lanka for example since this was a Hindu/Indian opponant could not obtain weapons and support from India, but had to obtain them from their opponant in the area China. So Sri Lanka is aligned with China...
So a blow or condemnantion to Sri Lanka is a blow or indirect hit on China.

The US recognizing the economic threat of China is leaning towards India greatly this is obvious in the local politic.

Now I don't claim this is in any fashion behind this particular thread. But it should be known the bare bones of the US political condemnation will under study to be found to contain US self interest and not be compassionate action.

Internet is not immune from such things but I do trust the veracity of the initial poster.
Curiously I saw, back in the day of the Tamil tigers attempts to use a well known Buddhist site to expound Tamil propoganda abeit in sometimes subtle ways. The obvious attacks since they involved attacks on Buddhism were deleted the unobvious ones were not. A attempt was made to enhance the schism between Sri Lanka and Tibetans as Sri lanka obtanined weapons from China.
This actually happend by a person whose spouse was a Tamil.

Now I have greatly simplified and there are many nuances to the story but that is bare bones.

So be very careful to look very carefully when the US gpvernment starts to issue motions for investigation or condemnantion of other equal in status nations.
All may not be as it seems.
As things are support for India

That may be the last post I make on the issue. Generally engageing in idiotic things (like this demand by the US government) or any idiotic thing tends to propogate idiocy and assure its continuance.
So most probably I will make this my last post on this issue. Little is gained by endlessly restateing point.

Gordo....consider what I say.
I certainly affirm and respect your personal attempts and successes at compassion and I don't doubt for a minute they are many. Involveing the US government since they are a corrupt entity through and through may have noncompassionate result, as result. So I advise to personally stay away from their thing.
Certainly what happened in that war was heinous and deispicable and should be condemned just not by the US government. Unfortunatley compassionate intent may be used by forces which represent corruption for stupidly compassionate result.
It is a pleasure to speak to you on this issue. Regardless of outcome I fully apprehend you are a reasonable person with a compassionate heart. That is most important in this thing....I have learned that is so. When I find one is suchly great joy ensues. So regardless of outcome you have produced great joy in this one.

[Mr. G]

Gordo....consider what I say.

ron, I understand what you're saying. I do not think that Amnesty International has a pro-American imperialist agenda....however, before I speak to soon, I will investigate further. Thanks.

[ronnewmexico]

I actually am not current with amnesty international in every respect. In years past they would issue a book each year enumerating the various human rights abuses by each nation.

My guess recently the major abusers would include the US in afghanistan, Israel in Palestine, Russia for their engagement in georgia and other areas, Pakistan for their various abuses, the afghan government for theirs, the Sudan, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Burma..,.to probably name just a few.
Why the US congress hastily passes a war appropration bill for afghanistan and at the same time considers this measure.....speaks not to any insight gleaned from amnesty international.
It speaks of agenda.

There are three diplomatic interests this may serve presently by probability and some results which will prove which it is. One.... this is prep for a gift of sorts the US will receive from India on some specific issue the US requires their support on or corporate interest served. If this is the case it will present and become evident in about two weeks time.
Two....this is a indirect hit at China for some reason most probably as tit for tat on the censorship of Google, since Sri Lanka is aligned with China. If that is the case within two weeks time will also present another resolution condemning Burma in some fashion since Burma is likewise a Chinese allie. and most remotely is...
third...Venezuela. if the stage is being set for a Colombian invasion of Venezuela the US may be setting the stage so to speak, courting allies and discouraging opponants in a diplomatic fashion. Indirectly courting India perhaps in the global opinion court to win their support....condemn this for us we support you for that future event,your proxy Colombia.That would not become evident for 3 months or so as such courtship and stage setting takes a while.

So each will be proven out which it is Compassionate action on a amnesty international basis...not a whit.